Need help with auto trans

[jwwiff]

I have two Ram 50's, both '87, both 2.6L engines. One has a 5 spd., the other has an auto. The 5 sp. runs fine, but body is poor and frame is less than good. The auto has a poor engine, but body and frame is much better. I (my son and I) pulled the engines and trans on both, put the engine that was on the 5 sp. on the auto, and put the engine and auto back into the auto truck. Engine runs fine, transmission does nothing. It will lock up in park (can't move vehicle) as expected, but does not engage in forward or reverse. In forward or reverse the vehicle can be moved.

When we first put the engine/trans in place, we forgot to put fluid in the torque converter and we ran it for <5 minutes. We then pulled the trans, filled the torque converter and reassembled. No change in status. I later found out that when we (my son) put the transmission back in the second time (after filling the torque converter) he filled it up until it said "full," but put in only 3 quarts (1/2 full....). We then filled up the transmission with the proper amount, still nogo.

LInkage is working - but no indications that anything is happening inside the transmission. When we pulled the transmission the first time, fluid looked good and unit was shifting just fine. We pulled the pan and put a new filter and gasket on. No evidence of any kind of residue or damage...

Help!

[jwwiff]

Correlary question:
It appears that the (1987) 2.6L will go with either transmission with no additional "adapters." Is this a correct assumption? The obvious diffferences are the shifter, clutch, down-shift control linkage. Are there any other non-obvous differences that would account for the symptoms?

[camoit]

from what it sounds like on the aut trans, (the one that you fogot the fluid) It sounds like the torque converter came out of the trans. If so then the front pump was not indexed when you jamed her together. I would guess that there is a flat spot on the torque converter shaft. That is what spins the pump. If indexed incorectly it wont do anything. There is a good chance that you broke the pump. Pull the the engine OR trans what ever you think is easy. When you put in the converter you need to look into the trans and see where the flat spot is. Then put in the converter. It should go "CLUNK" and drop in about 1/2 inch into the pump. Push on it and turn it back and forth. You might have gotten lucky and not broke the pump.

[jwwiff]

OK - dropped the transmission again and removed the TC. TC/transmission has two splined shafts. Smaller (inside) shaft is "fixed " to TC and drives the smaller shaft coming out of transmission directly (drives direct from engine to trans. pump). Transmission shaft (smaller one) turns freely. Larger splined shaft (outside) - is the driven side of the TC and driven side of the TC spins inside of the TC. The shaft side (larger one) coming from the transmission will not rotate. The output (driveshaft) shaft going to the back end does rotate in neutral and reverse and drive; locked in park.

Any thoughts as to if and why larger shaft does not rotate? Is this normal?

[camoit]

All right the TC has 3 parts. the outer part that bolts up to the engine "impeller" an inside part "stater" and the driven part you cant see the "turbine". the outer part spins with the engine and has smoth with a flat spot you can grab it and pick up the hole TC. The stator sits on the splines that is conected to the trany. You cant move it but you easly grab it. The smaller shaft inside of it "IS" the transmition imput shaft.
If you look with a flash light between the trany lip seal and the non moveable shaft you will see the pump drive that matches up to the flat spot on the TC. This is what usiualy gets screwed up when a TC comes out of the trany and was not indexed with it when reinstalled. Some times you can look at the TC and see "spin" marks from the pump drive.
Now inside the CT is the Stator. It's purpose in life is to multiply torque from the engine. It lives on the large non moveable shaft on the trany. It has a one way clutch inside of it. When hitting the gas it locks in place causing a change in fluid direction to strike the turbine harder. At cruse or on decelleration it will free wheel. The turbine is conected to the imput shaft of the trany and only spins when the car is moving or the trany is in nutral.
The front pump is where I would look first. It is located on the front of the trany. Thus the name. It is hiden behind a cover and a couple of bolts. You will need a gaskit if you take the cover off.
How much fluid is in the TC?
If you look in there should be Lots and should be covering up nearly all the internal parts you can see. If you want to add fluid to the tc just pour it in the hole. You can only fill them about 1/2 way the rest will pour on the ground when trying to install it.
I have found it eayser at times to reinstall the tc when the trany is on it's ass. Rember fluid will run out of the back unless you have a butt plug in it. Look between the lip seal and find the pump drive flat spot. Tilt the trany front up as far as you want to. Mark the tc with a marker so as to orieant the flat spot with the mark you are going to make on the tc. This is to help you rember what side the flat spot is on. try to alin the flat sopt with where the pump drive is.
("HINT" use a flat blade screw driver to move the punp around to the top of the trany. Makes it easyer to find later on. If it does not move, feels rough or you see broken bits in side when looking at it with a light then there might be a problem with the pump.)
Set the tc onto the trany and feel it as you do. you should feel it settle into place over the solid shaft and imput shaft. Then the final thing is the pump. Look at where the seal has been riding and confirm that it has seated by looking up from the bottom of the trany between the tc and trans. If it's not seated you will see the shiney area of the tc. If seated corectly you wont see the shiny parts. One more thing. If the engine and trans are hard to put together, like you need to use bolts to "pull" the 2 together then you are not indexed corectly or it fell apart again. Some times they can be tricky. take your time and hold the ct in place when maiting trans to engine. I hope this helps.
Good luck.
PS: you can normaly find me looking at the chat board on the index. If you see my name down there I will normaly answer back PDQ. I'm on nearly every evening working on the race truck build.

[jwwiff]

camoit - thanks for the reply - I'm learning a lot. I'll be digging further tomorrow and will undoubtedly have more questions.

jwwiff

[jwwiff]

I've got some pictures of the TC and transmission. TC inside splines move in one direction only. I don't see the "flat spot" on the transmission shaft, but the TC slides easily on the shafts and "drops in" and engages both shafts and fits nicely into the bell housing after roating. I'll try uploading the pictures into an album.

[camoit]

Well that is how the TC and auto trans are on normal american cars. I know the 5 speeds for the d-50. But this might help you. It's part of my factory manual. look under source info off the index page.

http://www.onsiteconcrete.net/d-50/Factory_Manual/21_TRANY-AUTO_AND_MANUAL.pdf

[jwwiff]

Do you have the manual for the Gen 2 trucks? Mine is an '87 so it uses the Mitsubishi transmission instead of the Torqueflite.

[camoit]

Do you have the manual for the Gen 2 trucks? Mine is an '87 so it uses the Mitsubishi transmission instead of the Torqueflite.

Sorry only thing I have I put on line.