94 5-speed swap

[recian]

So I figure it's time to do this thread since the differences in the 2.4L engines confuses me. My engine is a 94 auto so I can assume it's a wide block. What trans do I need to look for if I wanted to swap it to a 5-speed? Getting the pedals is easy, cutting a hole in the floor is easy (no carpet in the truck lol) and wiring up necessary signals to the existing trans sensor connectors is easy. I've done it before. I just need to know what models I need to look for a trans out of? I've heard the 5-speeds were narrow blocks.

[recian]

Main reason I ask this is the engine is about to come out to be rebuilt and it'd be a hell of alot easier to just convert it now.

[DroppedMitsu]

Only the 2.0 5and speeds were narrow pattern. 2.6 and 2.4l manual trannies are both wideblock so a 2.6 tranny is supposed to bolt up and should work also.

[recian]

my 2.4 is a auto and if im not mistaken it's a wide block 7 bolt so even the 6 bolt 2.4 (pre-93) tranny and 2.6 tranny will fit? I know there's a difference between 6 and 7 bolt and the 93-96 are 7 bolts. 87-93 are 6. I'll know for sure once I yank the engine. And if that's the case how would I know if the truck I pull from will have the trans I need if it's got a pre-93 2.4L

[pennyman1]

The trucks were all 6 bolt cranks as far as I know - the 7 bolts were car blocks. If it is a 7 bolt, you can use the flywheel and pressure plate from the car and the clutch disc from the 2.4 truck.

[recian]

ok so i can use a mt from pretty much any 2nd gen exept the 2.0

[pennyman1]

Yes as far as I know.

[recian]

Thats what i was wanting to know b4 i take the time and effort to pull a wrong trans. These trucks are hard to find so ive gota deal with parts from whatever i can find.

[pennyman1]

grab the driveshaft too - they are different lengths for autos and 5 spds. The tranny cross members are different also.

[recian]

My intent is to get the trans (leaving crossmember, slave cylinder and hoses attatched) with pedals, master cylinder and driveshaft. Main reason I'm considering this is it'll be alot easier to do this while my engine is out. My trans has a hard/delayed 1-2 shift and I know with older auto's it's likely to damage it more with delayed or irregular shifts to change the fluid. Any estimate on how much the 5-speed tranny weighs? I've gota carry all this stuff out of the yard.

[pennyman1]

A 5 spd tranny by itself weighs about 85-90 lbs - I carried one out from the back of a upullit lot myself once when I found a 5spd out of the truck and didn't have my 4 wheel wagon with me. I would look at the fluid of the auto before I would give up on it - a lot of times the delayed/hard shifts is due to the cable kickdown being out of adjustment. That tranny is the same one in the similar year nissan 300zx so the truck motor is not too powerful to tear it up easily.

[recian]

That's good. I know the fluid in the tranny is dark. Not brown or burnt but just needs to be changed. I've seen alot of old dodge tranny's when they start to have shifting issues changing the fluid ends up finishing them off. The guy I bought it from gave me 5 qts of fluid and a filter/gasket set so I figure I'll change it after doing the engine work before I condemn the trans. I'd rather keep the auto but if changing the fluid makes it worse I'll consider doing a swap. I just know there's no forum threads out there on swapping auto to 5 speed so it's kinda nice to have one and know the swap isnt as hard as I was thinking.

[turbomax]

I believe 2.4L 5-speeds were all used a cable clutch and the V6 5-speeds were hydraulic clutched. The v6 5-speed will NOT fit the 2.4L. If your going to use the cable clutch you will need to cut or drill out the cable mount off the firewall. There are 3 spot welds holding it. Or you can use a 5-speed of a Chrysler conquest/Mitsubishi starion which is hydraulic, but not sure if the driveshaft will need to be modified.

[turbomax]

oops 5 spot welds hold the clutch cable bracket

http://home.fuse.net/remo/d50-clutchcable5.jpg

[recian]

Screw that. Ill cling to the auto until i absolutely have to get rid of it lol im not fond of cable clutches to begin with

[pennyman1]

I am glad turbomax brought that up - the clutch won't work without the cable or the hydraulic setup. It's not a big deal to do - I had to do that on Geronimo's cab when I swapped it for an automatic cab. On the 1st gen the tranny tunnel for the automatic is wider than the manual, requiring adjustments to the gas pedal to work - not sure about the 2nd gen cabs.

[recian]

I think ill try to stick to the auto. Hopefully changing the fluid and filter helps

[DroppedMitsu]

Yes the 2nd2 gen requires gas pedal adj/mods when switching to manual tranny as I had to do the aame when I switched my ext cab from auto to manual.

[pennyman1]

If you look at the pedals, the manual one curves to the right, and the auto curves to the left. If you don't modify the pedal, the gas pedal ends up under the brake pedal of the manual pedal set. The best solution is to reshape the tranny tunnel to allow proper clearance for the gas pedal of the converted truck. I will be doing a mod of Geronimo's tunnel using a recessed license box this winter and will document the process.

[recian]

I'd like to see that write up. After seeing what needs to be done, If I have to have a 5-speed so bad I may buy another truck with a 5-speed. There's a guy locally who has a 5-speed turbo diesel D50 with a blown head gasket and he wants $700 for it. He didnt give details or pics. I'd like to go see it. It was in the under 2k section of the local auto sell/buy magazine.

[l.k.]

i have a motor and trans 2.4 5speed. if you are in need of wither let me know i am in virginia. good luck with your conversion. and let me tell you these trucks are like day and night from auto to manual.

[manorchurch]

A turbo diesel Mitsi for $700? Buy it.

Question: Since you live in NC, which is apparently where 99% of all Mighty Maxes and D50s were sold, if you run across a MacroCab, XtraCab, or whatever-the-heck-kinda-big-cab-name MM in years '89+, let me know -- I'll buy it if the underbody frame rust is not too far advanced. Impossible to find around here.

[recian]

You'd think that but it's funny theyre a rarity around here. Now at any given time you can find 2 pages of them in the charlotte, nc area. You find some king cabs from time to time but no 4 doors. If he still has it I know a guy desperate to get rid of a king cab. He was asking 3500 since it had a new P/J but he wanted to get rid of it

[recian]

http://www.carolinahondas.com/non-honda-vehicle-classifieds/162138-1988-mitsubishi-mighty-max-extended-cab.html

Here's that extended cab. He's out in the mountains tho. Way out of my neck of the woods.

[recian]

The trucks were all 6 bolt cranks as far as I know - the 7 bolts were car blocks. If it is a 7 bolt, you can use the flywheel and pressure plate from the car and the clutch disc from the 2.4 truck.

Now that I got my engine out, it's a 7-bolt. That's probably why the 93-96 engines are labeled different. What's the differences in the crank? If I found a 6-bolt could I drop that in without mods?

[LSR Mike]

NO. can't just change the crank, I don't have the specific differences, (nor the reasoning behind the change). suffice to say it's more than the number of bolt holes on the butt end.

http://www.vfaq.com/mods/early-late-engine.html

[LSR Mike]

found more info


What is a 6-bolt engine?
What is a 7-bolt engine?

A 6-bolt engine is one that has a 6-bolt flywheel - that is, there are 6 bolts holding the flywheel to the crankshaft. A 7-bolt motor has 7 bolts there.

Along with the flywheel change, there are many other internal changes between the two engines. The crankshafts are different sizes, as are the rods and crankshaft seals. 6-bolt motors have 'big' rods, while 7-bolt engines have 'small' rods. The journal and bearing widths different, although the bearing diameters are the same.

There may also be other changes between the two engines, and the parts are not interchangeable.

[recian]

So while mine is apart any advice on the dreaded "crankwalk" since I have a 7-bolt? I dont plan to make this a super race engine. It's just going to be my go getter truck til I can buy another one. I really want a V6 4WD and do a VR-4 swap. Or another 4 banger with no title and drop a 318 or hemi in it. There's a truck in my area but he wants 2900. It's super clean but out of my price range atm.

[LSR Mike]

don't worry about Crankwalk, If you don't have it, your's is good.

[recian]

Yea 198k and my bearings looked new and my cylinders dont even have ringstep. My bottom end was in very good shape. What were the symptoms? My engine did have a intermittent deep knock (sounded like bottom end) up til the belt broke

[LSR Mike]

From the VFAQ Site.

http://www.vfaq.com/index-main.html

huge resource, you just have to adapt the knowledge to the Truck, because it all about 2.0 cars.

Apparently, the factory had a bad run of CRANKSHAFTS, not bearings. The crankshafts were machined just slightly out of spec, and as a result the main center thrust bearing on the crankshaft wears prematurely. When this happens, the crankshaft will move or "walk" every time the clutch pedal is depressed. Some people have complained of difficulty in getting the car into gear (manual transmissions) and the diagnosis has been the same: a "walking" crankshaft. Well, it seems my crankshaft walked so much that it pushed the crank sprocket and the trigger plate forward and caused the trigger plate to come in contact with the crank sensor.

[recian]

Ah yeah my thrust bearing was fine when I tore my bottom end down. BUT it could still be possible the crank is a bad one since mine is an auto it never got pushed hence it wouldnt walk. I'll check crankshaft endplay once I get the new bearings in just to be safe. That's kind of a mandatory step of building an engine anyway.