5 lug hubs: the simple solution.

[foolonthehill]

Let's get this out of the way. SO MANY threads and articles have been done about Toyota hubs, brake modifications, etc, etc.
What a bunch of crap!
Want to get five lugs wheels on your truck? Moser Engineering will redrill your factory hubs and axles, all four of them, for $160.00. Done, done correctly, no hassles. Never worry about how you have to order parts, what weird hybrid of mis matched equipment you've created. Remove, send, pay, re-install, go down the road.
How simple can it be?
Now I have to admit, I was chasing the Toyota parts thing myself until I went to a dragstrip in Tennessee while my brother and I were searching for his old Pro Stock Hemi Duster last year. I saw a little 1st gen Mitsu truck running a Mopar V8, and noticed the five lug wheels he had on it and asked him if he had the Toyota hubs on it. He just looked at me funny and said, "no, I had Moser redrill the factory hubs and axles"...Bingo! Lights went off; bells rang, I called Moser, sure enough they do it for $80.00 an axle, (meaning front hubs or rear axles, per pair).
So there it is, no hassles, no muss, no fuss.
I hope that helps people. Moser is probably not the only folks who do that type work, and really, any competent machine shop should be able to do the job correctly...

[pennyman1]

what about the drums - who drills those? Or do you send them with the axles?

[4doorciv]

That is a very valid point on the drums. Some people want to swap to the Toyota rear end or the ford 8.8 for the option of going to rear disc brakes. What about when your drums are out of specifications and need to be replaced? Redrilling may not be best for the long run but I understand about the mix matched parts. As long as you know what you need and can remember it I'm sure you'll get by.

[turbomax]

I called Moser, sure enough they do it for $80.00 an axle, (meaning front hubs or rear axles, per pair).


huh. when I first looked at that option I thought it was $80 per axle shaft. I'll have to definitely do the rears now.


what about the drums - who drills those? Or do you send them with the axles?

they can do the drums to, but is extra. You could also swap Mitsubishi Van drums which are 5 lug and use the same brake shoes, so they must be the same diameter.

[foolonthehill]

If I were keeping the factory rear end, I'd probably get new drums to redrill, and that's a good question and point to bring up.
I am installing a Mopar 8.75 rear in my truck, because 1) I'm a Mopar guy and 2) because they take about 15% less H.P. to turn than a Ford 9" and finally, because there's an awsome disc brake bolt on kit for them for under $400.00 that includes everything.
I had bought a LSD (limited slip differential, Or Posi to you Chevy guys) for my truck, but knew the ratios available weren't what I needed. I was going to redrill the rear axle if I used that.
Now, with the 8.75 Mopar rear, I've got a 2:76 gear ratio, which means my engine will turn about 2,750 RPM at 80 M.P.H. on the highway. The truck weighs 2,700 lbs with the V8 in it. It doesn't need taller gears to get moving, quickly.

[pennyman1]

I know an A-body 8 3/4 rear fits with just spring perch mods width wise - at least 1 guy in the Pittsburgh area is running the setup under his 1st gen D-50 with a built Mopar 340 or 360, don't remember which.

[DroppedMitsu]

Wish you could have posted this a month ago before I sent my rear axles to a guy on another forum to get redrilled for $300.... oh well thanks for the info

[foolonthehill]

Ouch! Moser'll sell you custom length axles for that much!

[l.k.]

great news to find out....was starting my search for five lug....

thanks.

[pennyman1]

FYI - I did post the A body 8 3/4 rear info on the forum a few months ago in another thread; the A body 8 3/4 is not as common and therefore more money than other 8 3/4, but can take up to v8 Hemi power.

[foolonthehill]

Right- 8.75's are rare enough especially compared to 9" Ford's, the "A" body rear's even more so. I just drove a 10 hour round trip to buy two complete 8.75's. They're "B" body rears, so too wide, but I'm having them narrowed to exactly what I want. They are virtually indestructable, and as mentioned, take less H.P. than the Ford to turn.

[4doorciv]

Wow. Thats a far drive. Determination right there.

[l.k.]

foolonthehill....i can see that you are gonna have some sticky-threads for us.. since you have all this knowlege and experience..

[4doorciv]

They both do. But I'm sure it's more along the lines of "ask the right questions and the right answer will pop up" kinda thing.

[l.k.]

They both do. But I'm sure it's more along the lines of "ask the right questions and the right answer will pop up" kinda thing.

and im sure that a lot of right questions will be asked along the way..

the moser info was great btw...thanks again

[Payrion]

what do ya do about the large hub?...5 lug rims still wont fit without boring them out will they?

[pennyman1]

Interesting question - it depends on the wheels you are using - never thought about that myself. A redrill alone will not solve the large hub issue...:confused:;)

[DroppedMitsu]

The toyota front hubs have a small hub on them, my aftermarket rims fit on no problem. The back axles would have the hub/centering ring turned down by whoever redrills them, that's what is being done to mine.

[Payrion]

i thought about the redrill and having the hub turned down for the front....but the back i never really thought much cause id like to have disk, so a toyota swap would be in order..

[74Dusted]

I think i know which guy you're talking about with the 340 powered D50. Not him personally, but the guy who helped him build the truck.

Yeah the A-Body 8-3/4" fetches a decent price tag, and the bolt pattern for it is 5 on 4" (not the more common 5 on 4.5" or 5 on 5.5"), which means new Axleshafts if you want a different bolt pattern.

I've got an A-Body 8-3/4" under my '71 426 Hemi Demon, it came with a 489 Chunk/Center Section (the desireable chunk) Open-3.23's. Last time i bought a 8-3/4" i paid $150 total for the Housing, Axle Shafts, and 2 Chunks (489 Sure Grip 3.23 and a 741 Sure Grip 3.23) It was a B-Body 8-3/4 (3" Wider than the A-Body, 1.5" per side) I installed that under my '74 Duster and robbed the Backing Plates & Hardware from an 8-1/4" Rear.

At one time i did have a 4.10 geared 489 Sure Grip Chunk in my Duster, but i had a hard time keeping the front wheels on the ground, so i swapped to 3.23's.

Also the Dodge Dakota (Earl7 Dak's, the first 2 or 3 years i beleive) ran 5-Lugs and the Rear is about 2" wider than the stock D50 rear. Should be a Chrysler 8.25" Rear, although i've heard some stories about 7.25's showing up in them too.

[foolonthehill]

Whoa! I just got a kick in the gut, or backside, or maybe both! So we finally got my front hubs sent to Moser, and guess what? NO DICE! After the guy in Tennessee told me Moser redrilled his hubs, after corresponding with a Moser Tech guy, Moser comes back and tells me the way the Mitsu front hubs are designed, they can't redrill.
I wanted to get this out as quick as I could and save anyone else the hassle.
I screwed up, and I appologize for passing on incorrect information!
Now, off to find the right model Toy hubs, I've got 15" 5 on 4.5 wheels on the way!...

[DroppedMitsu]

Might as well get Toyota front hubs anyways. You can get the hubs from a junkyard for much cheaper then getting the Mitsu hub redrilled, and the wheel bearings are the exact same size(ID) as the mitsu spindle is so everything bolts right up.

[foolonthehill]

I'm guessing this is just the old Toyota HiLux type pickup?

[DroppedMitsu]

Yes, I believe the years are 89-95. And I used 95.5-01? Tacoma rotors. Shimmed the caliper with like a 1/16" washer or somewhere around there, you'll be able to figure the exact amount pretty easily.

[turbomax]

Here's a more detailed swap info. The link is from the old board.
http://www.mightyram50.net/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=70&t=267#p1515

[camoit]

Once you guys get this sorted out on the parts, years, manufacturer, things like that. Can you place the facts into the WIKI (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showwiki.php) ??..
Just make place for it. Once it's in there you can change, edit, move the information around as needed for corrections. Place pictures things like that. It works the same as the forum. You get more options in editing. If something is wrong some one will correct it but if there info is bad I can revert to an earlier version. It never deletes.
One important thing and,, it's way cool is the name / title. You really need to think what to call it. It's very important. Because when done correctly it will automatically take those words in the title and make links in the regular forum. EXAMPLE: The word History. Will be made into a link that takes you to that page, with out having to go and find the header and put it in your self.
Try it,,, type the word in your next post.. :)

[foolonthehill]

Do '83 hubs work as well? They look to be the same size, just have the bolts running from the opposite direction.

[DroppedMitsu]

I think I would try to stay with 89+. You might have different alignment issues with the earlier years but if you want you could try it.

[foolonthehill]

OK, I need some HELP! on this...I got the '93 Toyota hubs, cleaned them up, new bearings, etc, and I swithced them to 1/2 studs to match my rear wheels. I got them mounted today and I'm trying to install the caliper bracket with the caliper on it to check clearence and alignment, and it won't go on.
Even with the piston fully retracted, and the outer pad hard agaisnt the caliper itself, it lacks quite a bit of having enough clearence to slide over the rotor.
I went back and measured the stock rotor, and it mic'd out at .755; the new rotor, .890.
Anyone have this issue?
Any suggestions?

[DroppedMitsu]

I didn't have that problem, they go over my rotors fine, and I believe they are .88 thick also. Only thing I had to mod was to grind the lower part of the caliper bracket a little so it wouldn't rub on the hub. Other then that everything pretty much bolted right together.

[Payrion]

not sure if this helps, but i thought we have to space the caliper out some? I have 91 hubs, not on the truck, just mic'd the rotor at .881.

[foolonthehill]

181818191820

Here are some pix I just took. You can see the caliper is hard agaisnt the inside surface of the rotor, yet is still too far inboard to be able to slide it back over it's mounting bosses on the back of the spindle.
At this point, I think my solution is to take the caliper mounting brackets and have about a .100 machined off, .050 just to allow it to slide back over it's mounting bosses, and .50 to center the caliper over the rotor.
Thoughts?

[camoit]

Yep looks like the rotor center line is just a little different from the stock rotor. The only way to see how much the difference is would be, to take a new stock rotor put it on and measure from the caliper mounting on the spindle to the rotor surface. You might need to take some off of the spindle mounting area also.
Please place everything you come across in the thread just like post above. It shows the important things that people need to think about before someone takes it upon them selves to do the swap. Good pictures too......

[Fordubishi]

I had the same problem with my 81 so I went to the junk yard and got the brackets and calipers off an 88. the only mod I needed to do was grind a little off the spindle bolt holes and they now line up fine. The other thing being that the first gen are sliding calipers where the Sec gen are floating and are a much better brake and as they use the same spindle and rotor it doesn't matter which style you go with.

[foolonthehill]

Thanks. I'm also installing the ADDCO sway bar today while I'm held up on the brake issue for the weekend. And to think; I was supposed to be installing my new cam and valve springs and timing chain as well as shift kit instead!
So the sway bar, while wonderfull in itself, is great, the install hardware is not good. I have pix coming of that as well, and dimensions.

[camoit]

Ya some of the hardware that comes with a sway bar is junk stuff. Thin and week. Some times it's better to make your own by using DOM (Driven Over Mandrel) tubing that will fit the bushings.

[LethalEthan]

I got an addco bar for my toyota. Loved it.
http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/lethalethan/SAM_0241.jpg?t=1299128265

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/lethalethan/SAM_0242.jpg?t=1299128265

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/lethalethan/SAM_0245.jpg?t=1299128265

the hardware did feel a little cheap. But everythings holding up fine

[foolonthehill]

OK, last post of the evening. I pulled the caliper out of the mount on the right side just to make sure both sides were consistant. Sure enough they are, so I'll be milling about .060 off the bracket. I may look at some 2nd gen calipers and mounts.
Lastly, here's the sway bar mounts. the kit doesn't include links, only the bar-to-frame mount, and these simply don't fit. So here's a comparitive picture of the mount (left) as supplied by ADDCO, the factory mount (center), and the modified mount for fitment into the strut rod forward mounting bracket (right). You'll note that I still have some material to remove to allow the bolt holes to line up. I may even get annal and weld a washer to them and use a slightly longer bolt when I install them just so they can't move under any circumstances.
I should note here that the factory mount will work, using a couple of thick 5/16 washers between the mount and frame. I went through the trouble of modifying the ADDCO mounts simply because they are about twice the thickness steel as the stock units.

[DroppedMitsu]

Well fordibishi post explained why I had no problems, I have a second gen truck with different calipers.

[turbomax]

181818191820

Here are some pix I just took. You can see the caliper is hard agaisnt the inside surface of the rotor, yet is still too far inboard to be able to slide it back over it's mounting bosses on the back of the spindle.
At this point, I think my solution is to take the caliper mounting brackets and have about a .100 machined off, .050 just to allow it to slide back over it's mounting bosses, and .50 to center the caliper over the rotor.
Thoughts?

Did you use toyota tacoma rotors or toyota pickup (pre-1995) rotors. There's like a 1/16" difference in mounting depth of the rotor which is why may not be centered in the caliper.

[foolonthehill]

That's interesting, Turbomax. I got the rotors (Rotortech) through Jeg's. They show them being the same rotors. I actually called them to cancel them when I got my first order confirmation because it said "Tacoma" on it, and in talking to the tech rep at Jeg's, he said they both showed the same part.
That is probably what the difference is, but for me now, it doesn't matter, I just have to make what I have work.
If I decide to do further upgrades on the truck, it will probably be to a complete Wilwood system anyway, so whatever I modify to make this combo functional will be removed at that point. Meanwhile, I have all the p/n's for anyone who might buy the truck down the road to order replacement parts, so it'll work out.
But thanks for the detail info there, that 1/16th difference is my .060 clearence issue for sure...I'd take it off the rotor face except I don't want to pull the hubs again, and the brakes are already off.

[pennyman1]

Found that same offset issue with trying to run 2nd gen rotors on a 1st gen spindle - need the 2nd gen calipers to space them out properly. Also, you can get Hawk performance brake pads on ebay for $9.00 a set direct from Hawk for 2nd gen calipers.

[foolonthehill]

An un related question, are the strut rods supposed to have a bend in them near the forward mount? I know they have a slight bend where they mount to the lower control arm, but mine have a bend right behind the threaded portion where they bolt through the mount. It doesn't look right to me.

[pennyman1]

No they should be straight - it could throw off the caster adjustment and tear up the strut rod bushings

[foolonthehill]

Figured, thanks.