Roy's Garage: '90 2.4-4G64 5-spd D-50

[royster]

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This is my "build thread". I will share all my experience gathered about the 2.4 4G64 so others can have the information. We can all learn from other's experiences.

QUICK REFERENCE MENU:

'89-'90 2.0 and 2.4 cross-breeding (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2944-89-90-2-0-and-2-4-cross-breeding?p=25676&viewfull=1#post25676) has information about what we CAN't do with the two different engines, and what those differences are. (Thanks to contributors)

Why Didn't I Think Of That? (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2954-Why-didn-t-I-Think-Of-That) Hints, tricks and products you'll find helpful

Hello From Virginia (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2943-Hello-From-Virginia) is where I introduce myself to the forum.

4G64-2.4 Photographic Engine Reference (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/3161-4G64-2-4-Photographic-Engine-Reference?p=27838#post27838) How the 4G64 should look, highlights of important points (like timing marks, connector location and silent shaft accesses)

2.4 OIL PUMP REPLACEMENT (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2974-90-2-4-oil-pump-replacement?p=26527&viewfull=1#post26527) - Helpful to those with the 2.0 as well, step-by-step with photos

TIMING BELT REPLACEMENT (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2974-90-2-4-oil-pump-replacement?p=26675&viewfull=1#post26675) - may be of some help where the service manuals lack

SETTING THE IGNITION TIMING (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=26994&viewfull=1#post26994) using the ignition timing connector

CYLINDER HEAD WORK/ VALVE SEALS (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50/page2) follows my learning experience...including mistakes in analysing...that you might learn from, too.

Rear Drum Brake Overhaul (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=56031#post56031) Pictorial walk-through of my experience.

CLARITY FOR BEGINNERS

These engines have some unique features, and some specific issues. Click the orange title to go to thread posts.

Removing Valve Springs, Valve Seals (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=25939&viewfull=1#post25939) - I found very little information about these details, so I write about my experience. Photos and references.
Valve Seals (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=26300&viewfull=1#post26300) information runs through the thread as I gather information about them.

Silent Shaft(s) (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=25980&viewfull=1#post25980) also called “balance shafts”. Mitsubishi came up with this idea, and while some modifiers like to remove them, they were installed to reduce engine vibration. When starting out to work on my 2.4, I had no idea what a silent shaft was. I learned by researching and doing.

There are two of them in the 2.0 and 2.4 2nd generation motors. One on the left, activated by its own little timing belt (referred to as the “B Belt”), and one on the right, which is gear-driven by the oil pump gear. As balancing devices, their timing placement is important for them to operate correctly.
More About Silent Shafts (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=26424&viewfull=1#post26424)

Removing The Rocker Arm Assembly (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2956-Roy-s-Garage-90-2-4-4G64-5-spd-D-50?p=26531&viewfull=1#post26531) on the 2.4 requires careful attention, as the hydraulic lifters inside the rocker arms can…and do…fall out during the assembly removal. They can easily fall down the cylinder head oil passages if you don’t take care to prevent this.

PONY (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=265) - photo album of my 1990 D-50

My sincerest thanks to BradhMPH, Komeuppance, RedNeckMoparMan and all who participated...for their thoughtful help and kind assistance. I couldn't have succeeded without your inputs.

My intention is to adhere to stock (non-modification) mechanical protocols. As the information was slowly gathered, you will do well to take the time to read through the thread.

I know that this forum was of great help to me BEFORE I joined, and it has been (continues to be) an enormous help since I joined. It is my hope Roy's Garage will help at least one person out there who finds themselves the proud...but uneducated...owner of a similar vehicle.

As a "build thread", the first thing I need to do is build the garage. That's next.

[royster]

The garage was abandoned for many years before I got here. It is a solid building: the framing is all oak, constructed in the 1940's. However, it had a dirt floor and no way to enclose the front. I opted to joist the floor up, instead of pouring concrete...it would have been near to impossible to get a concrete truck in that area.

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A combination of "Great Stuff" expanding foam (also called "Architect's Foam") and concrete padding supports the joists, specifically where I knew weight was going to be distributed. The joists are 14" on-center instead of 16". 3/4" plywood was glued-and-screwed to the joists, with foam insulation strips placed between joists (an ultimate recycling project: the insulation strips were cut-offs from some previous project).

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The walls were firred out with 2x4's, insulated and paneled with 1/2" plywood ("shear paneling"), glued with construction adhesive and screwed with drywall screws (2").

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5 huge 2x8 solid oak rafter beams were originally installed very low, so I removed them and took the rafters up to the wall tops, more than doubling the rafter count, with two 2x8's in the center, where window openings existed, and new windows would go.

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[royster]

The story takes an interesting, life~altering twist at this point.

I had an adopted cat, whose owner had been admitted into a nursing home. When I began the garage project, I fed him out there at the job site. One day I noticed a stray had been eating his food. I befriended her, and it turns out she had 3 kittens, nursing near my house. There were some awesome days of raising the kittens, working on the garage, and enjoying summer. My rescue cat was not amused by the intrusion, but tolerated everything.

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Soon enough, walls were serviceable and the doors ready to install. Click-to-enlarge photo to see the mother cat eating near the blue chair.

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About the time the kittens were weened, some incident or factor caused both adult cats to die on the same day. I was left with three orphaned kittens, who I kept in the garage at night once the doors were in place.

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Work went on, the kittens grew, and one day, I bought a 1990 Dodge D-50: another life~altering event.

[royster]

My workbench is two 3/4" plywood sheets glued-and-screwed together, the top sheet of plywood being oak veneered. 2" heat-fused edge-banding makes the workbench look like a solid piece of oak. Second-hand oak cabinets were found here and there, and soon enough I had the garage I had wanted since my mother kicked the rock band out of hers', 4 decades ago.
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[royster]

Please allow me one more construction post before we park that D-50 in here.

The garage has evolved much since the previous pictures were taken. There is a functioning kitchenette with a stove/refrigerator apartment unit I found at a thrift store many years ago, for $15. Not show in the photo provided are the nice oak overhead cabinets I found and installed. A double stainless steel sink drains outside via a filtration system (I AM, after all, from California: we pioneered environmental awareness), and a rainwater retrieval system is designed (but not working, yet) to provide water for washing hands, gravity-feed with optional pump-assist. The garage has 100 amp service.

The work bench will hold 400 pounds before it will start questioning my motives. Remember, the walls are real 2x4 oak studs, reinforced and sheer paneled. It was when I decided to replace u-joints in the D-50 that the pristine workbench got its first dents and scratches. The Japanese call such marks "Wabi Sabi", meaning they tell a specific story instead of "decreasing the value of" that which is not perfect because it has been used.

Because of the way I framed and paneled the garage, it is essentially one huge speaker, because sound transfers nicely out, the bass is carried through the walls and floor like a giant woofer. I have a stereo system than can be heard all through the hills clearly. It is a very good thing I don't drink anymore. The radio/stereo amplifier is built into the wall. Two speakers are screwed tightly to the walls, and two tower speakers sit on the floor when I don't need the space to work.

The garage serves also as a carpentry workshop. It has a built-in air conditioning unit, and in winter, I heat with a kerosene heater.

The garage, as it looks today, can be seen in the following photos (future posts) of present-day work with D-50's.

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The cats grew up with loving care, and they had each other when I wasn't around. Their natural instincts were not hindered by human demands, so they in fact do go into the creek to hunt for fish. The twins are directly related to Maine Coon cats, who are in turn directly related to African Wildcats. The calico-furred cat is a representitive of every forest animal...including the skunks camoit fights :) (She waddles just LIKE a skunk!) Assuming they were born in late May, I named the twins "Castor" (the male) and "Pollux" (female), the twins of the constellation Gemini. And "Gemini" is the calico cat, with colors split perfectly down the center of her face.
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[thefreack]

Looks nice. Should be a good space to fix that truck in and many other vehicles I'm sure

[royster]

Thanks. I've done extensive work on the D-50 in here, then the '95 Mercury Sable (ugh) and the F-150 enjoys service there, too. What i appreciate so much is a solid, level floor that I can put the truck on jack stands all around and it's safe. Couldn't do that with a dirt floor, nor use a creeper. (By the way, I made my own creeper. It's a back-pad from an exercize contraption, with 2x2 rails attached and small wheels attached to THAT. I bought the pivoting wheels at Lowe's. It works pretty good).

[royster]

MY D-50 STORY
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What I learned, just up to this point, might help someone else NOT make the same mistakes I (and others) made. Life is like that: we can learn from others, or learn from hard knocks. "Experience is the best teacher", and this is so true. You can read from 100 books, but until you experience in real-time, you don't know much.

Varying degrees of smoke would emerge from the exhaust system when I started up my "new" truck. It didn't happen when the motor was warmed up, only after sitting for periods of time. What I didn't know then was what this was a clear symptom of: worn valve stem seals. There is a fairly easy repair for this problem (a thread HERE (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2736-Smoke-FIXED!!-1-2-qt-every-300-miles-no-more!!-10-00-fix!!-(-50-for-tools)!!!4-hr-!!?highlight=valve+seals) discusses it) that gives good results. But I didn't know at the time. I figured loading the motor with the thickest oil I could find would buy me some time. It likely caused the timing belt to strip. I ran pure Lucas Stop-Smoke oil, which is okay at operating temperatures, but gets so thick and "slow" at cold temperatures, it probably can't get through oil filters or passageways. And what I have to share is: thick oil doesn't permanently fix the problem. Replacing the valve stem seals DOES.

What I suspect happened is that the cold temperatures (40-30 degrees F) made turning the cam shaft hard, and at some point this stress caused the timing belt to strip. There might be another bearing issue on the head, and I won't know until I get the valve cover off. I did get the full timing cover off, and the secondary belt is fine. The belts were actually in very good shape when I bought the vehicle. My own "old thinking" (from conventional, American-made motors) essentially killed the D-50...for now.

But the experience pushed me to look into these trucks and engines with full focus...no half-measures...and it ultimately brought me to this forum.

If you're living in a cold climate area and have put thick oil in your D-50 or Mighty Max, take the time to pour a can of SeaFoam into the crank and thin out the oil, pronto. Let it run for a bit, then change the oil. Run pure 30 weight, but don't put STP or oil thickeners in there. Your smoking problem is more likely these seals than it is the rings.

Another valuable tip I learned from the community here is that the hard-starting of my D-50 was likely a bad water-temperature sensor. I wondered why the choke didn't seem to be working, and quite frankly, I wasn't sure if my D-50 had a carborator or was fuel injected. So live and learn. My "conventional" mechanical experience didn't help me to understand the 4G64, other than basics. It's a whole different ball-game than a slant six 225. Vehicles with timing chains can endure the stress: timing belts will only take so much before they file for divorce and demand custody of the glazed-donut locker.

[royster]

I was fortunate that the belt stripped while idling. The truck started after the usual cold complaining ("You left the toilet seat up again!" - "You never take me out, any more..." - "Not tonight, I have the headache From Hell, you self-centered bastard...") and ran for a few moments...maybe 45 seconds once the idle smoothed out. Then a loud "clink"...which, at the time, sounded suspiciously like $2,000.00...and the motor stopped. I tried cranking it, and it made a very different cranking sound. It was likely the sound of the crankshaft gears spinning on the timing belt.

So my "old thinking" was I could locate virtually any old D-50 that sorta looked like mine, and swap parts. After all, it's the same head on a slant 6 - 225 or 170. But asking around this forum, I'm told that the 2.4 and 2.0 ...not to mention the 4G64 and the G63B (respectively) are two different animals. One is wider than the other, so the transmissions, too, won't exchange. Notice your 5-speed trans is a one-piece casing, not a bell housing you can remove and use for an oil funnel or baby bonnet.

Well, I DID locate an '89 D-50, thinking a swap aughta/coulda/should work...and it was by asking the experts here that I understood there's no half-measure, quick-fix approach to serious, enduring repairs to our Little Tin Cans. What I share with you here is to the best of my knowledge, and I certainly hope to get corrected when I post bad information. I also hope that when the information is correct, you'll post a verification. I don't mind learning as I go: I have the time to do so. Others might not be as fortunate, and need to know from the start.

Be sure to review the thread '89-'90 2.0 and 2.4 cross-breeding (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2944-89-90-2-0-and-2-4-cross-breeding) if you haven't already, and want that information. At present, as I part out the '89, I will learn if the calipers, drums and such are inter-changeable, [EDIT: they are] and share that info with you.

I was very fond of American Motors Hornets and Gremlins, and the whole line of those cars had completely interchangeable parts. I have to learn new skills, today, to satisfactorily work on D-50's. That involves humbly learning from others, as well as my own mistakes.

[royster]

IN OTHER NEWS...

I have an appreciation for all the various modified trucks on this forum. I have chosen to remain faithuflly stock, and am happy to be able to replace little details my own truck was missing when I bought it. Itty-bitty details like a cap on the windsheild wiper bolt. Replacing weathered details like the door handles (exterior) and other appointments that make the truck look closer to showroom condition. I joined the "Stockers" group on this forum for this reason. The truck will be very much a "statement" of my own, just like the extreme modified trucks here, only stock, with after-market upgrades within reason. The parts truck gives me many opportunities, and other members too, to restore lost parts or functions, spiff up that which can be spiffed, and most of all, an appreciative audience to share it with.

[royster]

Lighten UP: this IS a Joke...

As you might be aware, I'm parting out the '89 D-50. Among other still-working equipment items is the windsheild washer reservoir and pump. I've cleaned them up and you might want to get this package for your "in-flight" cocktail service. Secure the reservoir somewhere in the engine compartment and run 1/4" line to the driver's seat, with enough line to put in your mouth. Simply fill the cleverly-concealed reservoir with vodka and orange juice and hit the "wash" lever: screwdrivers in the mouth, without taking both hands off the wheel! Or fill with your favorite OTHER cocktail: zombies, FudPuckers and classic Rum And Coke. [disclaimer: hot coffee is not advised, and beer doesn't work. Be sure to distinguish WHICH line is for sipping, and which line is for windsheild washing...confusing the two could spell disaster if your windsheild gets dirty.]

When you get pulled over for driving through the bank to order cheeseburgers, there will be no empty containers to point an accusing finger at alcohol! It's all under the hood, where cops don't think to look.

I actually heard this story in one of the A.A. meetings. I'm not making this up!

[BradMph]

The police can't arrest you for something like that which could of possibly been placed on the outside of the drivers compartment by another party. Though if they find you been sucking on your windshield washer fluid for the past 20 miles, it may get touchy in court. :lol1:

[royster]

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This photo was taken only a couple days ago, and shows the parts-truck in dismantle-mode. Presently I'm trying to get the drums off the rear end (they're stubborn) [EDIT: they are removed by placing two 9mm bolts in the threaded holes, and tightened, much like a wheel puller] and work with getting some member-requested parts-yanking done. The head comes off tonight...the REAL deciding factor regarding the engine's status (and what I can sell it for) as well as the front bumper. It's up on 4 jacks (beats a full house) and I'm eager to get it out of the garage so I can get into resurrecting the Tin Can.

Just in front of the truck is the kerosene heater. It's tight quarters, but comfortable. The cats think the parts truck is their personal climber: one likes sleeping on the floorboard, and the other likes sleeping on the roof of the truck.

Just beyond the kerosene heater, you see a "board" attached to the wall. It is a table top, flipped up. When the garage is not a car port, the table top flips down on top of my table saw, and two bar stools sit on either side. Another great crap catcher.

[royster]

Dismantling the 2.0 is teaching me a lot about how to proceed with this type engine. First thing to do after the valve cover comes off: PLUG THE OIL HOLES so small parts don't find their way down there. This didn't happen to me...God is always gentle on that first warning...it's just something I realised when a small part did drop off the valve assembly as I removed it. I also capped the dip stick tube after removing the dip stick (although he was re-elected for a second term).

It's stunning how many &%@#!!! vacuum lines there are on the carborated engine.

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[BradMph]

You have Tree dwellers and bush dwellers for cats. Some like it low and others like it up high. More likely the girls are up higher.

Here are our 2 kids. Flew them out from Ohio to Spokane, WA when kittens about 3 years ago.
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[royster]

Yup: it's the girls, alright.

In other news: this is an important note to remind me (and others) about servicing the head (on your truck :) ):

There are one time use ARP bolts for heads and if I'm not mistaken, also multiuse also. Like I stated in a past thread...I have used my STOCK head bolts consistently for...well I have never replaced them and the truck is a 1986. If you want to purchase the ARP bolts, go right ahead, but be prepared to buy again the next time you change a head gasket.
Mitsubishi had a problem with head gaskets and crack heads years back when apparently they did not tighten the head bolts correctly on their trucks right out of the factory. This caused warping and head cracking in many vehicles, especially the 2.6L. If you do not want to buy a one time use of the head bolts, it will be just fine. The most important part of head bolt tightening is to retighten after you have ran truck for 300-500 miles and it is warmed up when you do this second round. Follow this procedure and you will almost never blow a head gasket unless you severely overheat the engine and try to make it home on 220 degrees boiling steam. Also don't forget to have the head checked for warping. This should be automatically done at head removals. Also replace the head bolts into their same exact holes they came out of.

Thanks, Brad. Good to have friends around the garage kerosene heater...furry AND flesh.

[royster]

These seat covers were a quick fix when I first got the truck...I crammed a lot of tasks into a week, and never really finished the covers, just wanted things to look good, and clean.

The parts truck gives me an opportunity to do a really good upholstery job, with material I really like, and padding in some areas (the stock seats are not comfortable after 20 minutes). Bucket seats are still an option, but for now, re-upholstering the parts-truck bench seat is something I can play with, after the major surgery to get the '90 back on the road.

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[royster]

I crammed a lot of tasks into a week

I knew nothing about D-50's, and I hadn't gotten into enough trouble yet to set me on the path to find this forum :) All I knew was that I loved my cool little truck, and it needed some loving cosmetic care: the black paint around the door windows was almost white from deoxidation. Black plastic parts needed some mineral oil. And that cheesy upholstery had to go.

Knowing what I do now, I wish I had taken pictures...there are some, but not of the whole process. The gas tank repair probably would have been useful to some future Rammer, because one thing that's consistant in these trucks: Rust Never Sleeps.

It was a wonderful time detailing the truck, just basics to bring it up to "cared for" condition. But now that I am on this forum, I see the work others have done on their trucks and it's amazing the time and detail spent. I can't try to be "like the Big Boys", and I am fine being just a curb mechanic with a stock truck: the forum has made me feel welcome, that way. I probably represent lots of visitors to this forum, who are not extreme-modifying their trucks, but just keeping the basics intact. "The thing we have most in common...are our differences".

A list of what I did in that first week:
. Took the bumper off and gave it a good paint job after some straightening. Dupli-Color "Universal Black" with some clear coat. Same paint for the rims which I sanded and painted before getting new tires. I tried to locate chrome wheel-center caps but for now settle for painted.
. Painted the grille. Took a Ram emblem off the side, beveled it with a belt sander to fit inside the grille, and mounted it.
. Removed the instrument cluster and completely cleaned it inside and out, all new bulbs. While it was out, installed the tach and and running-lights switch.
. Door panels came off and got mild modification and paint, after-market window cranks replaced cheesy plastic ones.
. Used the Bissel upholstery attachment and "steam cleaned" headliner and carpet while bench seat was out. (Only 6 simple bolts to remove the seat in two pieces make it very easy to work with. Just like my first wife, it was an easy in and out.
. Installed a good music system. It will vibrate nearby buildings sufficiently, but I don't do that (anymore :D ) unless it's Led Zepplin or ZZ Top. It's a simple Dual CD player with a pre-amp. I quit listening to radio long ago. (In 1995 I walked out of the local radio station I worked at, after leaving a note on the wall: "Radio is dead". ClearChannel was buying up all the stations in the country, and what we have today is a pipeline of crap. There is no "career in radio" unless you think reading from a script and playing music from a computer-generated list is artistic).
. Putting the truck up on jacks:
. dropped the drive shaft and transmission. "Preventitive maintenance" of replacing u-joints might have been a mistake: I get some 55MPH vibration.
. Replaced the throw out bearing only to find the one in it was fairly new. This DID allow me to inspect the clutch, and also "get my feet wet" in doing deeper mechanical work...something I had not done for many years (I had no place to do it). Drained and replaced trans and differential oil.
. Dropped the fuel tank and addressed the leaking fuel line issue. It was in trying to locate a fuel pump that I began the realization of how hard it is to get parts for these little guys. I'm thinking this is a common D-50 'losing virginity' moment: you either dedicate yourself to these trucks or get rid of them. I'm keeping mine. After all: it has cup holders.

The truck spent additional time in a repair shop where the front end rubber was all replaced and the wheels aligned. Seems to me they replaced the pitman arm, too. At any rate, that front end is right. New shocks all around.

That sort of brings me up to speed as to this forum: my story is around here in different places, but the short of it is that I have mechanical problems to correct, and in finding the answers, discovered a whole community of Mighty Rammers (oddly, this reminds me of that first wife) and the culture of these unique vehicles. I'm not alone, out in that garage, and I have a place to share this, whereas otherwise, no one gives a rat's patooki.

And today, I hope to get the parts truck out of the garage, and begin my real journey.

All of this has just been a primer for what's to come.

[below: removing the fuel tank]
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replacing u-joints might have been a mistake: I get some 55MPH vibration.

I wish to make it clear that I know about replacing u-joints and the proper proceedure to do so. I need to check the alignment on the transmission mount, and also probably need the drive shaft re-balanced. Regardless that the u-joints are new, there is some visible play in the joins. Ghhhuhkk.

[royster]

It took a couple of hours, but I got the dashboard off the '89, and now can send the heater ducting to the freack. He assures me he's quite ready to spend a day tearing out the dash to put this stuff in there.

God save any of us if we EVER have to replace that heater core. (They look pretty "permanent", though).

I had the idea for shipping reimbursement for those who asked for parts: instead of cash, check or money order, you can just send a Lowe's gift card with the amount rounded as close as possible. I'm happy with that.

Will be shipping Monday, tomorrow the '90 for sure gets into the garage. I'm ready for that journey.

[royster]

'Got the '90 over to the garage today, no small feat. I did it alone. I had to roll it down the driveway (on its own gravitational power) then across the creek, where I had to pull it up an incline with the F-150 make a sharp right-hand pivot, (back and forth, back and forth...in the mud) then towed it 400 feet (20 feet at a time, to adjust the steering) to the garage with my F-150. The last 20 feet I actually towed it with my riding mower :) That must have been a sight to see: the riding mower pulling forward with no one at the wheel, and me at the caboose-end of all this, pushing the truck. But all I had to do to stop the mower was quit pushing the truck. Might have looked funny, but got the job done.

In carpentry, a helper can often be replaced by a well-placed nail. I adapt this thinking to automotive endeavors, too.

[royster]

Got the valve cover off and did a close inspection. It didn't take long to notice that the forward-most cAm shaft bolts...the two short ones..are missing completely. So far, no sign of them. I also (sigh, whimper) noticed cracks on the cam bearing casing where the bolts are missing. That's as far as I got for today, because I'm a Tired White Boy and tomorrow is another day.

BTW, these head bolts are the 10MM allen-wrench type, also. And an interesting thing I noticed was the cam lobe is there for a fuel pump, though of course nothing is hooked up to it.

Any chance I can get away with moving the whole f.i. intake manifold off to the side in one piece, or do I have to really get into breaking this down? (The maniforld is a two-piece component).

[royster]

Any chance I can get away with moving the whole f.i. intake manifold off to the side in one piece, or do I have to really get into breaking this down? (The maniforld is a two-piece component).

No, you lazy bastard! You wanted a project vehicle, and now you GOT one! "Half-measures availed us nothing", remember!? 'Book tells ya how... ain't nuthin' TO it but to DO it.

In other news, today:
. Seafoamed the F-150. The Shenandaoh Valley did not blow up.
. Got parts mailed to the freack and Ram5--Newb.
. Cleaned up flood damage, put foot bridge back across the creek.

Now the D-50 update:

Uh-oh: metal shavings in the drained oil. Not a lot of 'em, but still: no one likes finding hair in their food.

I got the rocker arm assembly off, and the center bearing has some serious scoring. Looking at the rocker arms, themselves, #1 ans 2 intake have some serious pitting. #3 exhaust likewise. Everything else looks good. I remembered (at the last minute) to block the oil drain holes before lifting up the assembly.

Patiently working on getting lines/hoses labled, and the fuel injector body off, then the manifolds. I don't expect to have the cylinder head off tonight, but tomorrow for sure. Then I'll know 75% of the story.

[royster]

"Plenum" I think the book calls it.

Well, I DID get the head off and didn't see any evidence of the valves striking the pistons. Since I'll have the head on the bench to replace valve seals, I can test each one to see if they're bent.

Ship-loads of carbon in that head, and lots of oil everywhere, including the intake manifold. #3 cylinder is pretty glazed, but there is still cross-hatching on all the others.

Am I to understand there are two silent shafts? AND...is there an easy way to test the oil pump while stripped down like this?

[royster]

Today's chores were primatily cleaning up, cleaning parts, and doing some close scrutiny. For those who are as clueless as I am on 2.0 and 2.4 liter engines, I'll share what I learned first-hand today.

The heads are nearly identical, except I'm comparing an '89 carborated to a '90 fuel injected. Some interesting facts made themselves obvious.

. While the cam shafts are nearly identical, and could interchange (I would not trust this to work) it's interesting to note the cam lobes are narrower on the 2.4, which has rollers instead of direct rocker arm contact with the cam. A subtle difference is also just behind the cam gear, and it is a "fan" pattern which is more pronounced on the 2.4. I believe it has to do with oil distribution. Lobe-positioning is the same.

. The head gaskets are the same. I measured both heads, and they are the same dimensions.

. As of yet, it appears the cam bearings and rocker arm placement is identical. I do NOT recommend trying to use one cam in the other engine.

. The intake valves are 1/8" larger on the 2.4. Hoping to maybe switch two valves I measured as the first step to that possibility. It won't work.

. The cam gear that the timing belt drives is narrower on the 2.0.

In short, my entire experience tells me I cannot use parts from the 2.0 for my 2.4. Except possibly...and I'll report later...the bolt-down bearings for the cam.
____________
After the 2.4 cylinder head was cleaned up, I tested the valve seal against the seat by spraying JB Blaster (Liquid Wrench) into the exhaust ports, enough to puddle around the valve seats. The exhaust valve against the cylinder head showed absolutely no leakage.

When this test was done on the intake valves, #1 and #3 leaked. (#2 and 4 didn't). This told me these were likely the valves that had unfriendly contact with the pistons when the timing belt slipped. Close scrutiny showed a very subtle but definitive contact mark on the corrosponding pistons, and a matching contact mark on the valves. A-ha.

So I have ordered two intake valves from (thanks for the recommendation) RockAuto, and will continue cleaning up stuff while waiting for their arrival. Now is a great opportunity to clean the engine compartment and other detail work.

I could read a book on these engines, and I could read this forum for days, but nothing has shown me how these trucks/engines are built, better than hands-on getting into them. There were some fears of the "unknown" aspects, but taking my time, and using common sense, has taught me bunches about my little truck. Not only that, but I can work on it with better confidence in the future.

[meandmit]

great story's Royster...keep them up

[royster]

Thanks, meandmit: I didn't know if I was just annoying people or talking to myself.

Those of us who primarily want to be able to keep our little trucks running are hard-pressed for good answers, and often for the simplest questions.

It is my hope that my foibles will help the newcomer...which I am...and answer some hard-to-find questions. Like using a valve spring compresser.

I haven't used one since high school. Gawd those were nice, compared to the $20 device most of us bought. Visions of The Simpson's "Lenny" come to mind with springs lodged in his eye. Trying to get the darn thing to clamp takes some figuring out. There is no good video on YouTube for the process.

What I found is you need to cork-screw the tool onto the spirng and turn until it's tight. Then turn the "spiggot" handle until the spring is compressed as much as the tool will allow. I found that by pressing down further, the keepers were easily accessed by needle-nosed pliers. (I placed the cylinder head on the work bench with a spray can cap under the valve. Thank God I didn't have to do this while the head was still on the engine). The illustration below shows the tool I bought, as did millions of cheap bastards across the globe. They DO work, but you need to work with them: they don't do the job FOR you, as the illustration deceptively suggests.
7647

BECAUSE this tool is such a pain, I suggest doing one valve at a time for the complete job of valve seal replacement: this allows you to leave the spring compressed instead of having to compress it later...plus, you won't scatter and mix up parts.

While the valve was free, I did a number of tests on it to assure it's bent. I removed carbon deposits and put the valve back in it's guide, rotated it and observed any variations and resistances. The variations are very subtle, but there.

A bent valve is going to play havoc with the vacuum system just as a burned valve would. The "leak test" was enough to convince me to replace the valve: that leak test was on a work bench: in service, the pressure of compression is a helluva lot more than Liquid Wrench seeping through. The "hole" (opportunistic crack) reminds me of my first wife: it both sucks and blows, very rapidly.

By the way, I DID leave the fuel injecter rail on the manifold when I removed the intake manifold. I disconnected the electrical input at the harness on the firewall, carefully rolled it up and secured it to the unit. After a careful cleaning, I set the manifold in a safe place so as not to accidentally knock it over or have visitors use it as a bong. The clips to remove the connectors at the fuel injectors are a "square horse shoe" that is difficult to get to. I'm sure there's a tool for them, too...sigh.

[royster]

Analysis From Evidence

I had suspected that ADDING TOO THICK OF AN OIL caused undue resistance on the camshaft during very cold temperatures, stressing the timing belt and causing it to strip out. Evidence shows this to be only part of the answer.

The center cam shaft bearing area has a "glob" of aluminum fused into grooves worn from any number of reasons, but suffice it to say that the oil passages in the cam shaft are very small, and thick oil (in cold weather) did not allow proper lubrication. Likely a dry spot on the bearing broke off (metal shavings in the drained oil) and fused itself into the bearing. This caused high and low points on that bearing area. (I say "area" because there are no replaceable bearings, this is the aluminum head and two-bolt hold-down machined to hold the cam shaft in place. RockAuto.com offers a bearing sleeve to repair just such damages, but that's another chapter).

This high point in the middle of the cam shaft caused even more resistance as the engine turned, making a "teeter~totter" affect. When the cam shaft is laid in the cylinder head craddle, I can move either end up and down due to the "bump" fused into the bearing area.

Very carefully scrutinizing the 2.0 cam shaft bearing holders, I can swap them to minimise the damage (and avoid ordering expensive parts) leaving me with only one damaged surface on the cylinder head, itself. I intend to use a Dremmel tool to carefully grind down the high point, then polish the surface. The cam shaft isn't damaged excessively.

This motor has 217,000 miles on it, and although these motors are pretty darned hearty, I only want to buy myself some time so I can locate a rebuildable 2.4 while this one still gives service. It is for this reason I decided not to go to the trouble and expense of replacing the water pump or oil pump: both seem to be in good service. However, I am taking the time to assure oil passages are cleaned, intake manifold and sytems are cleaned, and replacing sensors that affect the cold idle and choke: they hadn't been working since I bought the truck.

I wish I could take the time to do some gratuitous paint detail, but the days here are 40 degrees at best, 25 at night, and painting in an enclosed garage with a kerosene heater burning is about as smart as electing Sarah Palin for President. It can be done, but the results might not be satisfying.

[royster]

I'm thinking it might be because of the oil pump sprocket.. am I correct in thinking that there's a balance shaft behind it too? I was pretty sure there was 2, but not sure. I spent alot of time on the other side that has the balance shaft belt. I aligned the oil pump sprocket with its timing mark.. But that was it. Didn't think I really needed to do the next step.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/80-More-of-a-RE-build-Thread?p=3764&viewfull=1#post3764


can anyone tell me where exactly this bolt is? I looked on the drivers side of the engine and saw what I thought to be it back towards the starter. . . .Alright, well to answer my own question.. yes, there is a bolt back by the starter on the block. That is the access hole to the determine if the balance shaft is aligned properly. Skipping this step will only cause you headaches.


Thanks to blindeyed's posts, I was made aware of the other silent shaft access. I located the bolt and assured that's what it was. (The Chilton book mentions very little about the balance shafts, not sure how the Hayne's book measures up, but I find the book lacks in some simple areas like this. If we know, we can DO. If the feature is just shrugged off or casually mentioned, it doesn't help the beginner much).

On the passenger side of the engine it appears (gulp) the access is through a phillips screw, that I'm hoping to Gawd will come out without stripping. However it comes out, I'm going to replace it with a bolt of the same size.
[EDIT: these screws only access the bearings for the silent shaft]

I'm still working on the bench, so the block-in-truck work really hasn't started, yet. I got the 'bearing' ground down and polished pretty nicely, and successfully exchanged the 2-bolt hold down for that bearing area. I'm making sure absolutely ALL oil passages are clean.

I cleaned up the head about as good as it's going to get, and will start replacing valve seals tomorrow...good use of time while waiting for the replacement valves to arrive. I'll also order new hydrolic lifters from NAPA locally.

In the manifold and plenum, the EGR passages were really blocked, so I've taken great care to clean the passages out really good. Anal-retentive clean is what I'm aiming for in all aspects of the repair.

Before the head goes on, I'll drain the cleaning oil I had put through the motor. Once everything is assembled, I'll pour some more clean oil (10-30) around the whole assembly and crank the motor to push good oil through the passages, then drain that before the initial start up test. I think I'll be alright using straight 30 weight, unless one of you experts tell me not to.

And as was advised, I'll keep an eye on the mileage and re-torque the head at 500 miles. So all the wiring and such isn't going to get tucked neatly away, just yet.

I'm very thankful for all the information on this forum, and know how hard-earned much of it was...like blindeyed's experiences. It is my hope to present my own experiences (and that which I learned to avoid) for those coming down the road in their recently-acquired Mitsubishi trucks. I've taken pictures of many things during this process and when they're developed will post them.

[royster]

The engine compartment, note cylinder #3
7707

I HAVE to do a good job: I'm constantly being watched.
7703

Securing bolts in the order they go.
7704

An overhead view of the work bench. Note the small flashlight on the cylinder head: with the overhead lights off, this light reveals the high and low points by casting a shadow. Auto body work is done the same way, as is good drywall mud-work.
7706

7705

Lots of cleaning to do...and lots of cleaning up getting done.
7708

7709

7710

[royster]

I was in Woodstock (Virginia) ordering hydrolic lifters from my NAPA friend. I told him that NOW I knew what he meant by those "jet ports", having just torn down a 2.0. He said what he used to do with the jet ports was to weld them shut. On the '90 with fuel injection, I don't have to worry about that.

As he has been a parts man and racing mechanic for over 30 years, I value his expertise. I asked his suggestion about preparing the hydrolic lifters for installation. He said a 50-50 mix of "Mystery Oil" or STP and transmission fluid. If possible, soak them overnight with the holes up. They will not need adjusting. It's cool to note on the 2.4 4G64 the lifters have rollers on them: there''s virtually no friction on the cam contact.

I am about done with Advanced Auto parts. And UPS: I have had orders left out on my driveway, and today the driver was in my neighbor's driveway, trying to figure out how to get off the hill in this snow, seriously pondering the most dangerous place to turn around. I asked if he had my part...(Advanced found it appropriate to send a thermostat gasket from a large order, by itself, in a ridiculously large container)...which he did. I then gave him back-woods advice as to how to get off the hill safely: there was no way he was going back the way he came. There's a road out if you continue down the hill, past my driveway. I hope he made it out okay.

RockAuto.com uses a variety of delivery services, and the valves I ordered are coming FedEx. NAPA has a warehouse not from from here, in Winchester. I'm essentially dealing directly with them, often getting next-day delivery at the store.

There are some parts you simply can't get from a supplier, any more, and you'll have to resort to making them yourself, or getting them from a junkyard. Timing belt cover seals aren't to be found. My NAPA friend said to bring the old seal/gasket in, and we can determine which material to make a new one from. This seal is important as it keeps dirt and oil off your timing belt.

[royster]

BIG Discovery

While examining the valve assembly still on the head, I found that the #4 exhaust valve seal was mid-way UP the valve stem. I had wondered WHY so much oil was at the rear of the engine, and now I have a good answer. The seal had worked its way up...faulty installation or whatever...and was letting oil go everywhere, particularly into the exhaust manifold. Therefore, every cold start included the serious smoking I had been worried about in the first place. [Thinking it was rings, I used thick oil to curtail the smoking. This caused the timing belt to strip because the camshaft couldn't move freely.] It seems lessons are learned every day, if you're really paying attention.

How else but by chaos would I have learned (and discovered) all of this?

The WAS no other way. Experience is often prompted by necessity, and necessity often comes from our mis-conceived ideas. We make mistakes in order to learn.
__________________________________
The valve seals sent in this kit include 4 exhaust seals, and 4 intake "positive" seals. Both are going to take some reading up on before I am confident to make the repair.

Speak up, you experts, please: I could use some advice on installing two different types of valve seals. The "positive intake" seals have two aluminum rings around them. The exhaust seals are identical replacements. At present, I only have #1 intake valve out of the head, and its seal looks like the other 7.
__________________________________
Don't know if the scan will show it, but the photograph does: #1 intake valve is out (for your orientation). The #4 exhaust valve seal can be seen higher than the others (if the scan picked it up). [edit: it did.]
7714

IN OTHER NEWS...
Once the parts truck was removed from the garage, I took the time to clean up real good, and also install these bargain cabinets I got for $40 from Lowe's discount aisle. Drawers and cabinet space in a garage are a real treasure.

I also laid down 2 pieces of new Luann plywood for the next project (the one underway right now).
7715

View of my sitting area where I read the manual and have coffee. The steps to the right lead to a small storage room behind the garage.

Note the air filter in the canister: this is a ShopVac filter from Lowe's. It takes only placing a notch in the filter bottom rubber for it to be a perfect fit in the 2.4 4G64 air filter canister.
7716

[royster]

IF IT DOESN'T FEEL RIGHT, IT PROBABLY ISN'T
No "first-wife" joke here: it's too obvious.

The valve stem seals that came with my head gasket set didn't seem right...because they aren't. Having removed the exhaust valve I posted about, I compared the replacement seal with the worn one. I even set it place, expecting to hear a "click" as it snapped over the groove designed to hold it in place. The new seal doesn't have the ring that snaps into that groove. Several "first-wife" jokes could be used here. Like, "If I used these seals, they'd just be flopping around in there, doing no good."

One problem with locating replacement seals is the illustrations that most websites offer: they do not show a cut-away view.

So tomorrow, when I go to pick up my lifters, I'll ask my NAPA guy if he has these in stock, and if not, to help me locate the right part. I'll take the two used seals with me to be sure (one intake, one exhaust).

This frikken' 'journey' is frought with all KINDS of traps and pit-falls! It makes me even more appreciative of this automotive community.

The Chilton book mentions very little about the balance shafts, not sure how the Hayne's book measures up, but I find the book lacks in some simple areas like this. If we know, we can DO. If the feature is just shrugged off or casually mentioned, it doesn't help the beginner much)

This applies to the seals, too: the book simply says to put them on. No cautions, no what-to-look-for's, no first wife jokes. "Common sense" picks up where book-smarts leave off, and so the name of this post is "If it doesn't feel right, it probably isn't." So stop and take the time to figure out how to make/do it right. Force doesn't always make something work. And just "hoping it works" is a fatal flaw. [First wife joke #197]
___________________________________
The book tells you that if the valve doesn't spin freely on its seat, it's probably bent or warped. In most cases, this would be true. However, the exhaust valve I removed had become stuck in position due to long-term build up of carbon from leaking oil. The wire wheel on my Dremel tool cleaned that area to the point that the vlave once again fit happily, and rotates as it should.

I am reminded the book is ONLY a guide-line: it's up to us to THINK, and to proceed with focused attention.

And it's up to us to share these insights, or the experience is no good for anyone. [First wife joke #583]

[royster]

MY BAD

The valve seals probably ARE right: #3 and 4 valve guides ARE NOT. They've worked their way back out, over time, and are fully 1/4" lower/higher (depending how you look at them) than the other valve guides. (I took pictures. When this project is finished...will it ever be?...I intend to make a clean thread with nothing but the information and photos).

So the sequence of events is: the valve guides worked their way back out from how they were installed (I assume), and in the process, dislodged the valve seals, causing enormous oil leakage.

I removed the rest of the valves, bagged and identified them seperately, and put them in a box with the cylinder head: I'll take it to my NAPA friend tomorrow and see about having valve guides replaced, and maybe the seals installed, too. I'd suppose the valve guides are hydrolically installed. At any rate, I am not qualified to replace them or pound them back in with a framing hammer :D

So at this point, for now, the repair is out of my hands. I'll go on to other tasks while waiting. Seems like everyone on this forum spends 3/4ths of their time here waiting for parts to arrive.

I also decided that since I've gone this far, I have to replace the oil pump, too. Cha-ching. But it's the right thing to do.

I can sooooo understand why these engines befuddle old guys like me, whose Ford Falcons could be fixed with a brick and cooking oil.

[pennyman1]

For the weight of motor oil to run, use 10w-30, not straight 30 weight. The straight weight oil will cause problems with lubrication when the motor is cold, especially in the winter months, causing oil starvation. The clearances on these motors are much tighter than the falcons and other american iron you have worked on in the past, so the 10w-30 is essential for proper lubrication. Don't want to see you damage the motor after all you have been through to fix it.

[royster]

Thanks, Pennyman. After this major surgery, the smoking will be minimal, and I'll feel better about using the multi-viscosity oil.

The cylinder head went out for service this morning. My NAPA parts guy says they'll likely bore a slightly larger hole in order to put new valve guides in the two ports. I went ahead and asked them to install new valve guide seals, too: I understand the procedure, and it might be a bit of a cop-out to have someone else do it, but I'm a little fed up with constant glitches...as I'm sure each and every one of you are.

Dropped of the head, picked up the hydrolic lifters.

Next phase is to conduct a really good clean up. I do this on my construction sites, too: re-group between phases. Seperate the wheat from the chaff, so's to speak. Then it's time to get the front end up on jack stands and drop the oil pan in preparation for the new oil pump. When the engine is as far as I can get it until parts arrive, I can address another issue that cropped up while the truck was still on the road: a front caliper not retracting. Front brake re-build.

[pennyman1]

Since you will have the frontend off the ground, you might want to check out the lower control arm bushings, strut rod bushings, idler arm bushings, and the frontend in general. The lower control arm and strut rod bushings are available in urethane for the same price or better than the rubber ones, and last much longer. The idler arm bushings are available from NAPA - the other bushings may be as well or on ebay.

[royster]

This is excellent advice, Pennyman. When I first got the truck, I had all that work done, including an alignment. The exhaust system was replaced from the catalytic converter back, so it was very quiet. They had trouble locating the Pitman arm but finally got it right. That truck was wonderful on the interstate, and I look forward to days when he hums once again, only with a happier heart because his arteries aren't glogged!!

[royster]

Taking a break for a while: with below-freezing temps for the next few days, getting away from the wrenches will be a good pause. Keeping the kerosene heater going 24/7 gets expensive, and right now, I think I want to live life a little bit, outside of the engine compartment.

[royster]

I'll be ordering the oil pump kit today, and the oil pan gaskets. This whole operation has made me understand the importance of oil pressure, the right oil, and not cutting corners on repairs. And replacing the oil pump is a bit of insurance: how awful to put all this sweat into the engine only to have it all ruined should the existing oil pump go bad.

Had a good chat with BradMPH last night (along with mylittleshitty and rusty bitshi) and got some encouragement. Brad assured me that these trucks will give 300,000 if the work is done right, and having gotten into the engines, I can see that. I also see that they aren't a casual hobby.

Haven't heard from the machine shop about the cylinder head (I hope for good news) but again, Brad assures me that if I have to, I CAN replace the valve guides myself. All of this experience will go to good use when I DO conduct a complete re-build. As of yet, no replies to the ads I placed: everything is frozen here in Virginia, with an expected low of minus-one degrees tomorrow night.
______________
EDIT: I went ahead and ordered the input bearing (by recommendation) so I'll have it on hand.
______________

[lush90]

It sounds like you need a wood stove so you don't have to run that kerosene heater. I'm warming up by mine as we speak, there is no more comfortable heat!

[royster]

Wood stove would be great, but too late in the season, now. There IS no better heat than a woodstove. If I had an Englander 3500 out there, I could blow heat into the garage, and not worry about paint spray or solvents exploding.

Alas, a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do.

7753

This is the one I have in my kitchen. http://www.englanderstoves.com/28-3500.html

[royster]

BradMPH has provided a great information resource for valve guide seals HERE (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2616-Valve-Guide-Seals-101).

Oil consumption is discussed HERE (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2700-Oil-Burning-!?highlight=valve+guide+seals).

And thillskier testifies HERE (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2731-WOW-smoking-issue-appaently-quot-fixed-quot) about oil consumption/smoking eliminated by replacing valve guide seals.

As so many of our problems seem to be from engines smoking heavily...many of them are up to a pack-and-a-half a day :smokingred: ...it has been my observation that 85% of the problems can be traced to worn valve guide seals. That is definitely the case with my 2.4.

I also discovered two valve guides have slipped out of place, and in the worst location: #4 and 3 exhaust, which are at the back of the engine in the area oil gathers most when the engine is shut off. These guides slipping down caused the valve seals to dislodge and become useless. The symptom was extreme engine smoking at cold start-up. Once the engine was warmed, the smoking was minimal: an occassional cigar at worst.

If your truck is smoking, and a nicotine patch isn't working, look into replacing the valve guide seals before you panic about an expensive rebuild. They CAN be replaced while the head is still on the engine, though caution must be taken to assure valves don't slip into the cylinder when the keepers and springs are removed. The Chilton manual suggests setting the cylinder you're working on to be set at just-before TDC, the spark plug removed, and the cylinder stuffed with nylon rope. Once rope is stuffed as much as you can, turn the engine gently to TDC. The rope will support the valve while you replace the guides. After each cylder is serviced, back the engine to just-before TDC and remove the rope. (See the book or ask here if this suggestion isn't clear).

[royster]

I await the arrival of a new oil pump, will post about the experience next week.

[royster]

I await the arrival of a new oil pump, will post about the experience next week.

RockAuto just e-mailed a shipping notice. Not much I can do in this single-digit weather: I'm stuck in two rooms of the house: the kitchen or my studio. But I brought the valve cover over to the house with some aluminum polish and fine steel wool, to make good use of down-time.

Shortly after i got my D-50, I began to notice a gas leak, which was obviously at the tank. During the week I had the truck up on jacks in my garage, I dropped the tank, thinking it was a simple rubber connection gone bad. It turned out to be the metal tubing coming from the fuel pump: it has corroded through, just enough to start leaking.
7774

I ended up breaking the tubing worse while trying to repair it. I had 1/4" stubs to try and attach fuel line to. Using the concrete caulking I talked about earlier, I literally caulked new rubber fuel line onto the stubs, carefully hose-clamped them on, surrounded that with more caulk, and let the repair sit for at least 48 hours. I then made a "shell" over the repair area with Bondo, about 1" thick, to keep it from ever moving.

The repair was a success, though I need to get a higher rated pressure fuel line in.
__________________________________
The cats helped me ready the garage for the truck repairs. I had the Sable in there for a week, replacing sensors and other engine fussing. When it came time to back it out of the garage, Castor steered, while his sister stood on the gas pedal.

7775

7776
For those who know: yes, that's a Big Book on the Sable's rear deck.

Don't know if I shared this, yet, or not: They LOVE to drive...
7777

all three of the cats will go into the creek to hunt...
7778

and they are very adept at working on cars...
7779

[royster]

CYLINDER HEAD / VALVE GUIDE UPDATE

The machine shop just called me, the machinist, himself...Mark. He has been working on Mitsubishi engines for many years...how lucky can I be?

The EXHAUST valve guide pushing down, and disengaging the valve seal, was common to these (and other Mitsubishi) engines. The reason is simple: iron and aluminum...particularly the exhaust valve, where temperature causing expansion/contraction is more dramatic. He told me he bought a tool several years ago that scored a groove in the valve guide which allowed him to put a snap ring on top to keep it in place. He went on to say that Chrsyler eventually put snap rings on the valve guides at the factory to solve this problem, making his tool sort of obsolete. He said a mechanic's life is like that: things come and go in waves.

He proposed to push the existing valve guides back into place, and use his special tool to put snap rings on the guides. He said he hasn't used that tool in five years.

As I once had an '88 Dodge Caravan, I know about the smoking-at-idle, and knew enough to suspect valve guides. But in this past month, I've learned volumes about how the guides and seals actually work.

So it was all good news: no cracked head :smokingcrack: -HEY! CRACKED HEAD, not CRACK-HEAD! - and hopefully the head returns tomorrow...in time for the better weather and remaining parts to be delivered.

[royster]

When the time comes for a head rebuild, I'd be prone to cut grooves in the valve guides before replacing the assembly. Mark, the machinist, said that the snap rings were hard to come by, any more. Like so many things on these trucks, we have to resort to what's available.

I drew a picture to show how the valve guides fit, and where a groove-and-snap-ring would do the most good. Mark says that without the snap rings, the repair lasts only one year: the problem returns.

7793

More than being worried about The Beave, I'm suspicious of that Eddie Haskell. I've heard rumors about him. :smokingjoint:

[royster]

The Fed-Ex guy just left after dropping off my oil pump and other goodies.

I got the cylinder head back this morning and I have everything I need to get back to work on the Tin Can, including 50 degree weather for a few days, above-freezing at night.

In theory, when this engine is put back together, it will be better than ever...or at least, any smoking will be absolutely minimal: there's no question I've addressed the core problem of the oil burning.

Will be taking pics to post.

Time to fire up the kerosene heater!

[royster]

I started trying to install the valve guide seals, but was a bit stumped by the "o" rings that came with the package.

The book, again, says NOTHING about installing valve guide seals except "install them". Well, wonderful, but there's nothing to go by, except to look at the part, and the part it fits on. It should go this way or that, but no definitive instructions anywhere. I assume the plastic is all that goes in place (without the "o" rings) and that's enough to keep oil out. Guaging by the distance from the top of the guide to the groove the seal is supposed to fit on, it doesn't seem to match up. How far down do you go? Does that beveled groove self-tap the seal? I'd hate to go through all this trouble and have it fail...simply because I can't find a simple answer to a simple question.

This is one situation I DON'T want to learn from failure: these seals not working right means tearing this thing down again. I was unable to locate any threads here regarding the actual process of installing valve guide seals.

Help :helpsos:



And for all my careful bagging of each individual valve assembly, I somehow lost two or three spring bases. WTF? That's when I knew it was time to walk away for the night before I started :bang:

Tomorrow I will start by doing a good clean up and organizing everything: stuff's getting scattered and misplaced. I must say, in good faith, that I'm glad to be back out there after the freezing weather. And getting frustrated is no way to enjoy the project, OR do good work.

EDIT: This was of some assistance: thanks Brad MPH~
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2616-Valve-Guide-Seals-101

[royster]

Here's a video I found that helps to understand the process. (Another video explained what to listen for regarding the sound of when the seal is properly seated).

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OVMbFA8cy-E

I noted the importance of making sure the seals are well lubricated.

For the experts, this simple task is second-nature. For those who have never been through the process, it's baffling.

The videos show a few specialised tools, the Chilton book uses everyday available tools...like using a deep socket to tap the seal into place. I did not like the minor damage this did to the seal top, so I'll locate some tubing to match the hard surface top of the seal: mine are metal-jacket for exhaust, 'rubber' for intake.

The confusion about the "o" rings was cleared up by BradMph's valve seals 101 post: knowing the difference in "umbrella" type seals and "positive" helps me to comprehend the task in front of me. I do not have "umbrella" seals in the 2.4 .

Without any feedback about installation, I went ahead and installed one seal WITH an "o" ring...not knowing better. Consequently, I destroyed the seal...more so when I removed it. I learn as I make mistakes. Sharing those mistakes is beneficial to others, so here you are.

I want to take the time, again, to thank BradMph for providing information useful to keeping these engines in good order :)

In looking at the parts catalogues, I found each set of replacement seals comes with a plastic installation sleeve, that fits over the valve stem. This is great for protecting the seal as it is lowered into place, and the sleeve slides off easily after the seal is finger-pressure tight on the stem. What confused me about the head gasket set the seals came with is now obvious: the set is designed to accomodate several engine types. A small plastic sleeve was provided for the jet valves in the 2.0 engine. Not having jet valves, I do not need the sleeve.


FOR THOSE WITH THE 2.0 JET VALVES:
A racing mechanic told me that the jet valves can be removed and the holes welded shut. The jet valves are more trouble than they're worth. I expect forum experts to correct me if I'm wrong on details such as this, or validate their positive usefulness.

Beginners, such as myself, need to get over a couple psychological blockages: we cling to the book in regards to ordering parts: yes, ours' is a Dodge D-50, but Mitsubishi originally manufactured the vehicles and their engines. It's okay to order Mitsubishi parts instead of looking for D-50parts...in some cases, a better choice is getting the Mighty Max equivelent of D-50 replacements. Funny little glitch, but one I'm sure many have encountered.

:oldtimer: An old timer long ago relayed the story of how simple and un-demanding 1930's flat-head engines were. With a rod bearing gone out in the middle of no-where, he dropped the pan and used a piece of raw bacon to fix the bearing long enough to get to the next town. The engines we work on today are a bit more demanding than that, and many of these engines cannot ingest pork products. Turkey bacon does not have the same lubricating properties as pork bacon, so this is a theology issue best addressed on another forum altogether...
Perhaps "Jesus And Lubricants: Is Lucas Oil Kosher?" :confused1:

_________
EDIT:
One has to wonder why a guy was in the middle of no-where with a package of raw bacon. I'm not even going to speculate on the issue: he's dead, now, probably from eating too much fat and suckin' on Lucky Strikes.

[royster]

I went ahead and installed one seal WITH an "o" ring...not knowing better.

What led me to think the o-rings belonged in there was looking inside the old seals. It appeared they had o-rings. But when a cotton swab was used to clean the inner surface of the old seal, I realised I was seeing oil, not rubber. I then understood that plastic provides the actual seal between the valve stem and flow of oil.

A magnifying glass is extremely usedful in your tool collection...especially if you're getting up on years. Oh no: I'm...I'm...

I'm becoming an :oldtimer: and dithering solenoid! GHAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

[royster]

Having the benefit of a guinea~pig motor, I removed a valve spring from the 2.0 in order to yoink the bottom spring plate (they are the same size). In doing so i saw how the valve seal was situated. After three days of agonizing, I now feel confident that the only thing that matters in installing the seals is that the groove on the valve guide and the ring on the seal fit together. There is some space below the seal once installed...about an 1/8th of an inch...and I realised that the bottom of the seal isn't doing anything: it's the fit into grooves that matters.

I also used one of those Lowe's gift cards to buy a steel sleeve from the 'assortments' drawers. I took a valve seal with me to get an exact match, and will use the sleeve to tap down the seal. I now have a better idea as to when to quit tapping.

I'm going to get the head finished tonight, then my next biggie is to replace the oil pump. And then...wonder of wonders...I'll actually start reassembling the engine. Like so many of you guys here, the truck has been out of service for weeks. I'm pretty damned horny to be driving it again.

A side note: since I was ordering from RockAuto, I went ahead and got an input shaft bearing. Someone (I forget who) recommended it for solving transmission noise. I will have it on hand next time I drop the transmission.

[mylittleshitty]

I hammered my seals down with the oem tool. You installed them right, the the seals have around 1/8" gap to head. Hurry the heck up

[77amc]

You should really twist them down with a little high temp grease in them. If you/whomever took them off with vise grips or ____ and scratched the outer dia of the guide, it can tear the inner part of the rubber seal that's inside the 'cup' and cause a leaky condition.

If you didn't use the little 'straw' that comes with some kits, you can slightly tear the lip of the seal making it leak from the get-go depending on if there
was a burr at the valve stem tip. (that's used as a sleeve on the tip as it goes up the guide)

Just my .02
E

[royster]

And a valuable 2-cents at that, 77amc. I did in fact dip the seals in Mystery Oil then twisted them down into position. Yes, I used the plastic straw. The intake seals pretty much just snapped into place. The exhaust seals went pretty much on with just hand-pressure once they were lubricated. Gentle tapping insured they were in place. The first one I attempted to install dry WITH an "o" ring.

So for such a small detail, there are many crucial things to note. Yet the Chilton manual simply says "install the seals". I hope these posts help someone in the future who has no idea HOW to "install the seals".

[royster]

7821

There's MORE where THAT came from... :secret:


...after I finish repairing broken pipes that froze :jason:

[mylittleshitty]

Very good job!

[lush90]

I agree, thanks for providing all the details. One of these days I want to tear into my '94 project truck and your posts are very informative.

[royster]

Very good job!

Thanks! Those freezing nights I polished on it when I felt like it, in 1/2 hour stints. There was a point I just said "Enough is enough!"

EYE CANDY :gotpics: Why YES, I DO!

BELOW: A rear-engine truck? Naw: VW and Corvair did that already.
7822

Thought this was a cool shot. Note position of the (pre-surgery) valve seal on the left, and the one on the right: do ya reckon that caused a bit of an oil problem? (photo below)

7823

Implements that get me through the night - [not shown: inflatable Julia Child doll with optional attachments]:
7824

Cleaning the block with hand cleaner then rinsing, and afterwards. Note catch-pan below engine area:
7825 7826

How it came together, this morning:
7827 7828

How I keep it together. (Cylinder head seen is from the 2.0)...
7829

And soaking the new hydrolic lifters in a 50/50 solution of Mystery Oil and Trans fluid (by recommendation)
7830

[royster]

I agree, thanks for providing all the details. One of these days I want to tear into my '94 project truck and your posts are very informative.

Wow, thanks: I'm really glad to hear that. I will pay-it-forward by thanking the forum for being here: no where else, and no body else would appreciate the sharing, and it GAVE me a place TO share. No one in my real-time life gives a rats' patooki about my truck. So thank YOU people.

Busy day, today, with this nice break in the weather. Of course, I finished up the camera and had it developed. I also changed the oil in the F-150 after a good flush with Mystery oil and SeaFoam. Then went on to repair busted pipes from the freeze, which means I can wash clothes (and shop rags) again. I tried to order some valve seals from Advance (to replace the two that were damaged) but that would take 4 days. I installed the best I had in the easiest-to-reach positions, should I have to replace them when the 500 mile re-torque comes due, but I'm pretty sure I can get a set from NAPA in a day or so. Likely, they HAVE them at the Winchester warehouse (20 miles away). Starting out, I inadvertantly put an exhaust seal on the intake, so I gently pried it back off and used the right one. Everything went smooth from there. Just to be anal-retentive, I'd like to replace the first one I installed dry. That's 3 on the exhaust side altogether. (I lifted one very gently from the 2.0 and used it on #1 exhaust).

I also (you knew it would happen) FOUND the missing base pieces among the bags of valve spring components. How I didn't see them after THREE searches is just a testimony to my dithering :oldtimer: solenoid.

Tonight is preparation for installing the oil pump.

And of course, there's always time for a little pussy...
7831

[royster]

A repeat post from Valve Seals 101 (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2616-Valve-Guide-Seals-101?p=26268#post26268)


I noted the importance of making sure the seals are well lubricated.
__________________________________________________ _______
Take care in removing the old seals: you don't want to damage the valve guide shaft by applying too much pressure or using vice grips that might cause scarring on the surfaces. Those scars become a threat to the new seals when installing them, because they can cut the seal inner surfaces and cause oil leaks.

"Clean" is always the virtue in engine work. It is self-defeating to allow dirt and yucky grease to contaminate your new parts or girlfriend/boyfriend/faithful dog, and the surfaces they attach to. Steal some of your mother's guest towels and be sure you have plenty of them available to keep your work clean.

Wiping off the stems where the new seals will sit is important. Especially with the faithful dog.

For the 2.4, here is the process I used:
Note there are two different seal-types for exhaust and intake. Intake seals don't have to deal with the higher temperatures that exhaust valves do, so it is important to make sure you place them correctly. An information sheet should have come with your seals/gasket set, telling you which seals go where. Should you have 8 seals of the same type, this is fine. Otherwise, the rubber seals are intake, the brown plastic seals are exhaust.

You also want to make sure your valves are cleaned up, ready to re-install. Wire brushing carbon deposits off won't hurt the valve, and a Dremel tool with a wire wheel is even better. Using your mother's guest towel, wipe off the whole valve before installing. ASSURE THAT THE SPRING RETAINER GROOVES ARE CLEAN AND FREE OF DIRT.

. Before sticking ANY lengthy object into a hole, you want lubrication. This is just a fact of Nature. The Church Of The Helgrimites might argue certain details about this and insist on alternative approaches, but few of us live near such churches, so ignore them if they come to your door and tell you dry insertions are a Rite Of Passage...albeit a painful one.

7839

. Have a "dip" cup handy, like the one above, which is not filled with Merlot wine, but Mystery Oil and transmission fluid. 30-weight oil can work, too. Different mechanics will have different preferrences, such as a white wine or Pilsner beer. Never serve Chablis with cylinder head parts: it's De Glose'.

. I dipped the end of the valve into the dip cup and then shoved it into position. Whatever romantic words you choose to use are entirely up to you, but as mentioned before, don't "talk dirty". Not yet, anyhow. That can come later, when the valve spring comes flying off the spring-compressor and landing in a different zip code.

. I then laid the cylinder head flat with a 3/4" socket (on its side) under the just-installed valve's cavity. A short plastic straw should have come with your seal set: this goes over the valve stem itself, all the way down as far as it will go (gently). With needle-nose pliers, I dipped the valve seal entirely in the dip-cup, shook it off (the "more than once" joke applies, here) and carefully lowered it on the shaft. (Is it just me or is it getting HOT in here?) I found, as amc77 suggested, that twisting it downward gave a good result. I also found that sufficient lubrication make tapping the seal into place with a deep socket or sleeve was not necessary, but your experience might be different, particularly if you chose the Chablis. If you can feel a definite "click" when the bottom of the seal is about 1/8" above the cylinder head, the seal is successfully in place. See if you can spin it with your fingers: my experience was the intake seals would spin snuggly, the exhaust seals wouldn't.

. Don't forget the bottom 'washer' that the valve spring sits on. It keeps the valve spring from digging into the aluminum head as it rotates during operation. This washer fits over the seal so don't panic about not putting it on, first...just make sure it's there before compressing the valve spring and installing it.

. The valve-spring-keepers should be clean, and I found that handling them with my fingers was fine. With the compressed spring in place, slightly tilting to one side allows you to insert one of the keepers...you might need to push down on the spring a bit (it will compress some more...that's why the 3/4" socket is there: to keep the valve from slipping down). Position the spring around until the keeper is in its groove, then install the second keeper. You'll need to work with each one as it goes, but again, you can push down on the spring to get things into place. Once they are, let off the hand pressure, and pull up a little bit on the valve spring compressor: you should be able to turn the spring freely while the keepers stay in place. If so, loosen the spring compressor untill the assembly is in place and the compressor can be removed.

. Taking care to remove the 3/4" socket from under the head, either set the cylinder head on wooden blocks (away from the just-installed valve) or off the edge of your workbench (enough for that valve to open and close): what you want to do is allow the valve to open and close without hitting anything below it. I used a few layers of rags to cover the top of the valve, then gave three gentle but firm whacks on the valve. This test will let you know if the keepers are going to stay in place, or if you will only have one eye for the rest of your life. Any variation of this test is probably acceptable, like using a rubber mallet. The objective is to not injur the valve surface or inadvertantly bend the valve itself.

[royster]

Any chance I can get away with moving the whole f.i. intake manifold off to the side in one piece, or do I have to really get into breaking this down? (The maniforld is a two-piece component).

The answer is: how willing are you to do the job right, and discover problems you can't see if you don't take things apart?

Case In Point: there is a labrynth passage for the EGR valve. This is a little hole you'll see in the intake manifold, and it is likely filled with carbon. By seperating the plenium from the manifold, you see this passage is pretty well blocked up there, too. But when you take the EGR valve off, you can see this is a total of 4 square inches of carbon yuck that disables the EGR to do its job properly. It takes some doing to get that carbon out of the whole passage way AND the EGR valve. The "EG" in that stands for "Exhaust Gas" and it has...wonder-of-wonders...carbon. After 217,037 miles, it has more than just carbon crammed in there. It likely has a good amount of
7840
and where they stashed the rest of that guy is anyone's guess, but we HAVE discovered a good quantity of him in our various engine components.

The EGR affects (among other things) idle and acceleration, and the valve can't detect the vacuum/pressure with all that Jimmy Hoffa particulate in there. The EGR valve channels vaccum to other components when the valve opens. If it can't open...and it has no vacuum to channel...the other components can't operate properly.

So by having the courage and resolve to clean everything up...not for show, but for good operating function...yes: you have to get into the manifold and clean things up. This is the lesson I learned, and I assure you it is charactor building. Being a Minimalist yeilds minimal (or even negative) results. Going the full distance likely translates your TRUCK will give YOU "the full distance" when the temperature guage says "normal", the CD player is thumping sweet and you're passing Yugos with a happy heart.

I started out hoping for a "quick-and-dirty" repair. I found, in true honesty, the repair has to be done with attention and care in order for the whole of the project to be satisfying. Yes: it will take more time, but it will also eliminate many problems that would crop up later. I don't WANT my D-50 parked on jack stands all the time. Once you get your little truck thoroughly serviced, then you are free to play with it. But to just slap a band-aid on the valve cover is not what these trucks want, and they won't let you get away with that.

The other point is: having gone this deep, I can't turn my head and pretend I don't see these problems or needs. They are, after all, in many respects, opportunities to correct future glitches, and also enhance the operation of the whole system. I had a fear of getting into something I knew nothing about. I realised I have the benefit of the Chilton book, and the resources of this forum. There are your "support group", and it's okay to get deep. We'll all pitch in to help you through, and once you're done, you KNOW that much more about your little truck. Wasn't that the whole idea? It was (and is) for me.

If your human head is congested, hockin' loogers isn't enough: you gotta blow your nose, too. The truck's resporation system is much the same: one glogged nostril is annoying. You can pick your friends, and you can pick your nose, and you can pick the attitude of doing the job thoroughly.

Or have a bugered-up engine.

________________________________

Case In Point: there is a labrynth passage for the EGR valve.

When you take your EGR off, you'll see a passageway that goes down to meet the intake manifold. It has a tunnel there, too, and another tunnel across the cylinder head, where it terminates in #4 exhaust chamber. There is no valve or moving part: this tunnel is open all the way to the EGR on the engine. The tunnel is subjected to the exhaust and pressure of all 4 cylinders. And there's no way for normal operation to clean it, so far as I know. The carbon is worse for trucks like mine, that were burning lots of oil. The passageways get clogged, and the EGR no longer works as it should...if at all.

I'm not sure what to offer you as a remedy for this problem, unless you keep an interveinious feed of Seafoam into the passageway and hope it works like Draino, eventually. Perhaps one of the experts can offer advice, but for me, tearing down the head was a blessing is disguise.

[royster]

I ordered new valve seals through the local NAPA store. (Advanced could only offer delivery in 4 days. Napa is getting them here overnight). I had to order the whole set, but they aren't expensive, and now that I understand the procedure, I want to go back and assure the whole installation is correct.

This is SO much like sex: about the time you get the hang of it, you're finished.

So I spent yesterday doing some clean-up and organizing, as well as some gratuitous polishing on the aluminum engine parts...like the thermostat housing, before I put a new thermostat in it. I also spent time and focus on cleaning the EGR valve, then testing it. It works just fine.

For those in the midst of a similar project, or future members who undergo this type of surgery: the head gasket set includes ALL the nit-picky gaskets you'll need to thoroughly tear down components like the thermostate housing, and the housing IT sits on. I have a choice of TWO EGR gaskets. New rubber rings for the distributor. Just about everything I need to tear down and clean up (though I was willing to make gaskets if need be).

And I got the cheaper of the sets: get the few-bucks-more set and it will include the timing cover dust seal, which I have been unable to find seperately.

As I said earlier, when this project if finished, I'll post a comprehensive report with photos and a clear thread title: it will surely help others. Because I do not have a digital camera, I can't post immediately the tasks I'm conducting, or the details people like Fordubishi point out regarding timing marks etc..
________________________________


THE GREAT ZOOKINI PREDICTS
7842

Taking the time to do a job well will reward you with more than good results. It gives personal satisfaction. It may possibly prevent you from having to convert a popcorn booth into a fortune-teller box and then sitting in it, hoping cheap people will put quarters in it. [Gawd, the air in here is horrid!]

[royster]

I'VE GOT AN ARM AND A LEG IN PARTS FOR THIS TRUCK!!!

7864

BELOW: As you can see by the tuna can, this engine has been smoking.

7865


So I spent yesterday doing some clean-up and organizing, as well as some gratuitous polishing on the aluminum engine parts...like the thermostat housing, before I put a new thermostat in it. Well, okay: maybe approaching "obsessive"...

7866 7867

[royster]

The EGR affects (among other things) idle and acceleration, and the valve can't detect the vacuum/pressure with all that Jimmy Hoffa particulate in there.
7868

HUGE THANKS TO FORDUBISHI: Here is the timing mark on the head (my emphasis).

7869

[royster]

View from the driver's seat...(note muddy cat-paw-prints on windsheild. There's NO keeping a vehicle clean around here).
7872

Today was an absolute clean up and re-group: the top-end phase is over and now the truck goes up on jacks. The kerosene heater was moved into the corner and workbench cleared for the oil pump part of the journey. From there, the timing belts get replaced and the re-assembly begins.
7873

For 20-some years this garage was impossible to work in during winter, and besides: it had a dirt floor. I worked out of it, nonetheless, and in this first year of operation after renovation, this is an absolute joy to be in, because I certainly have something to compare it to. I often think, as well, that because of the garage renovation, the kittens showed up. Now they keep me company while good music plays and I fuss with my little truck, learning every day.

[OG Arrow]

royster your posts are Always Fun to read !
Keep Them Coming !
(and say "Hi" to the kitties for me) :)

[royster]

Thank you so very much, OG.

I'm happy to announce that the oil pan is dropped and the sump is out: both are immaculately cleaned, ready to go back in. No terrible news from "down under" - there was some metalic silt (to be expected) but no bolts, pistons or parts of New Jersey in the oil.

I took a break at 8:15 PM (my time) for a sandwich, and to feed the wood stove back at the house. The oil pump assembly comes out next, once the Spacely Space Sprockets (roh ray, Rorge) and silent shaft ("Shut yo' mouff!" "But I'm talkin' 'bout SHAFT!" "Then we can dig it!") cogs come off. I'll take the opportunity to do some cleaning detail that would otherwise be inaccessible.

Oil pan came off without raising the engine, and it had been sealed only with silcone caulking: no gasket.

Oil pan was a B+ITCH until I saw that last bolt I didn't see before. Amazing what one bolt will hold...sort of like paint holding a wall cabinet on a kitchen wall. (No, I didn't bend the pan).

[royster]

I'm understanding WHY they call it a "silent shaft"...it's 'cause NO ONE IS FREAKIN' TALKLING ABOUT IT. AT ALL.

Not one mention of it in the book (which is, by the way, a Haynes and NOT a Chilton: the Chilton is for my F-150. Sucks dyslexia you if got it).

So there was absolutely NO WARNING that the driver-side silent shaft was going to come out with the oil pump. It reminds me of that scene in "The Fly". Wasn't expecting that. But worse, the pump has to be further unbolted to liberate the silent shaft. WTF? And there is NO information about how to get that cap off, that covers the silent shaft's bolt...you know, the bolt you can't see, and the one no one tells you about?

Well, I'M talking about it, see? I'm not remaining silent about the silent shaft. What is that thing, the Illuminatti of the 4-cylinder engines? Gotta know the secret hand~shake and passwords? Jeeznee peeznee criminy CRIPES JeesoFLIP.

So how does one go about getting that flat, cog-looking cover off the silent shaft nut-house? It doesn't turn, it doesn't pop out, and I can't figure out how to get the darned thing to move, but if I don't have it, gawd knows what will happen. It obviously seals oil.

This is horrid, to be this far and suddenly be stumped by something even simpler than a valve seal. NOTHING in the book. Period.

Help. Help help help helphelphelp, please...

EDIT:
A search brought this up http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2325-Counter-Shaft-Elimination-2-0-L

I asume this HAS to be the same for a 2.4? Use a punch and tap it counter-clockwise?

The worst part of this is the old pump looks to be in very good condition. Several select cuss words would be expressive here, but I have to acknowledge that the experience isn't gained any other way. And with the oil pan off, I was able to look up my engine's dress. Woo hoo! Good stuff in there, buddy! I aughta take pictures for lonely nights.

EDIT #2
Obsessed as I am at times, I went over to the garage and used a nail-set: sure enough, it came off. Thanks to camoit, whose post helped on this...and has great pictures.

Speaking of pictures, I got some more to post, but tomorrow: it's 1:00 AM, here, and I'm tired.

But I am now officially at THE turning point: it's all re-assembly, now...unless the silent shaft squeals like a stoolie. It would be just like it to sing like a bird and spill the beans. (And we wonder why Americans are so hard to understand...)

[royster]

Camoit provides great pictures for this operation at the link I posted above. The book is not clear on any such detail, and for the first-time mechanic, this information...like the valve seals...will likely be helpful to know. [Photo below by camoit, with much appreciation]
7874
One thing I noticed about the new oil pump is that (on the work bench) it doesn't rotate clockwise. The balance shaft has to be in for it to turn in the right direction. This is likely one reason we are cautioned to NOT rotate the engine counter-clockwise...I'll post later once I have finished this phase (or experts can add their 2-cents).

Another tip I might pass along to the newbee is: in any repair to your truck, spend a few dollars more and get the good gasket sets and/or kits: they will include detail items you aren't expecting to need (but will). A good example is the 'o' ring that seals the very cap I was complaining about: it's in the oil pump kit. The cheaper kit only has minimal gaskets, and you'll either end up with more delays because you have to order more stuff, or make your own. I have posted the example about the good head gasket set which includes the timing cover seals, whereas the cheaper ones don't, and you can't find that part seperately. Another example is the timing belt kits: for a few dollars more, get the one with the new tensioners, not just the belts. The old tensioner might seem okay, but they're like teenagers: once tha parents leave the house for a PTA meeting, those kids are going to party and get into mischeif. And tensioners are extremely important, so you don't want one seizing up a few miles down the road...if the bearings in them give up their service, you'll be ordering plenty more parts.

Camoit points out the importance of new seals, and there again, the kit I got has the seals already installed in the oil pump. When you order parts, click-to-enlarger the picture. Take a good look at what comes with the kit. An illustration of "buyer beware" is very clear in the Weber carborator thread, where lots of fake copies are offered with deceptive referrences, and guys are out hundreds of dollars because the carborators are junk. The same goes for the parts you order: take the time to make sure you're getting everything you need. I've been lucky in working with my D-50, but the temptation has been there to take the cheaper route. Twice, now, I've been glad I ordered the next-best up, rather than the bare-bones offering. From here on out, I know to get at least the better (as opposed to 'standard') part, kit or gaskets. Since I'm not rebuilding this engine yet, I have no need for the ultimate~best kits offered: I just want to keep my truck running and on the road. The experience I'm gaining now will be very valuable when that rebuild time comes around.

Installing this new oil pump was a willingness to go the full distance, and while the old pump likely was fine, I have the hands-on experience of getting the engine this far down, and this is valuable information for a truck I intend to service myself for as long as I have it. In the first weeks of owning my D-50, I relied on a mechanic to work on the truck. Hind-sight shows he knew very little about Mitsubishi engines or their quirks. In addressing the smoking problem, he recommended a total engine flush and "miracle product" remedy...which now I recognise as likely a Seafoam procedure. So he knew nothing about the valve seals going bad, and like myself, saw 217,000 miles on the odometer and figured it was rings. I don't hold this against him, knowing now what I do about the 2.4. And as this thread reveals, NOBODY would have known about the displaced valve guides without getting into the engine as I have done. It would have been impossible to see without the valve cover off, and even then, only in removing the valve springs did I see the true nature of this truck's smoking problem. I cite an earlier post which exposes my reluctance to really get serious about the engine:


Any chance I can get away with moving the whole f.i. intake manifold off to the side in one piece, or do I have to really get into breaking this down? (The maniforld is a two-piece component).

I answered my own question, in doing the work, and a few posts later. I also share about the clogged EGR passages, and only by the tear-down did I reveal that problem, and have the access to fix it properly. I years ago quit believing in "miracle products", with very few exceptions, Seafoam being one of them. Our society is very much the same way: we have horrible problems we're trying to pacify with "miracle product" approaches, when we really need to stop and deal with the core causes. And we need to do this just like we repair these engines: we can't use old knowledge or experience to address something we know very little about...and we will continue to know very little about it until we become willing to go the full distance for satisfying resolves.

Speaking of old knowledge: an old timer years ago said mechanics kept a pair of panty hose in the trunk of their car. If a fan belt broke, the panty hose could be wrapped around the pulleys, tightened and knotted, the excess cut off, and this would be enough to run the water pump until you got into the next town.

Frankly, I'm starting to wonder about these old timers. :oldtimer:

They were running around these back-roads with raw bacon and panty hose in their trunks. What other filthy little secrets will be revealed about them?


Time will tell. Oh yes: it will spill the beans, squeal like a stooly and sing like a bird.

[royster]

This photo shows my little refrigerator where sodas and sandwich components are kept. ALWAYS use a sandwich gasket with mayonaise sealant and mustard lubrication.
7881

The upholstery attachment for my rug~sucker got the headliner cleaned up remarkably well (photo from October). Note I cut the rear view mirror and installed an after-market glass-attached mirror.
7882

The parts truck outside the garage. This little guy has been so valuable for what I learned from dismantling it. It also was helpful in referring to some placements..."When in doubt, look at the other one."
7883


Before and after...and continuing to evolve
7884 7885

When I went to install my pre-amp, I found brackets already there to bolt into. I have since learned that this was for hanging the optional air conditioning unit. I can say, in all honesty, I have a well-hung pre-amp.
7886

[royster]

The book instructs you to remove the cap from the pressure releif valve and remove the plunger and spring. (This is that part where the oil filter goes. It is a seperate piece from the oil pump plate, but must be removed in order to get the plate off. I say "plate" for want of a better word. Suffice it to say it's the alluminum front of the engine with the oil pump attached to it). I was unable to get anything to loosen the cap (22 mm cresent, open end ONLY, and I couldn't find mine). I just left it on until the unit came off from the engine. I used a socket wrench to remove it. Apparently this is okay, because the book's instructions for reinstall are rather casual. I assume the primary point is to inspect the inside of the plunger area. Certainly my engine had no pressure to worry about.

The left side (as you're facing the engine) silent shaft gear must be removed. The book offers no clever means to do so. For the curious: there are two screws on that left side, neither of them helps you hold the shaft while you're loosening the nut. They actually peer into the silent shaft's bearings. With no other means of getting my nut off, I used channel locks with a rag to protect the gear. Even at that, I ended up using the Dremel tool to de-bur some marks on the gear.

In replacing the gear, since the oil pan is off, I can reach up through the engine and jam the shaft...(does all this talk make anyone else horny? There sure are a lot of male-arousing words going on...) in a similar way to the right side. The right side shaft has a bona-fide bolt you remove to access the shaft. That bolt is just aft of the starter motor, about the same height.

Speaking of that right-hand side shaft: know that you can remove that plate in front of the hidden bolt, remove the bolt, and the silent shaft will remain in the block. (See photo provided by camoit). The right-hand shaft has only one bearing: the left side has two.

I have opted to set gaskets with silicone gasket sealer on the oil pan, oil pump plate, the sump connection and the oil filter holder before installing them. Allowed to cure sufficient time means I won't be fussing with gaskets falling off as I try to install stuff. I made use of the drying time to clean surfaces and some detail cleaning in the engine bay.

Once the oil pump is re-installed, and the oil pan replaced, it's time to put the silent shaft belt on, and assure the timing of the engine.

You NEED to ground the timing adjustment wire near the firewall to set the timing correctly, this tells the ECU not to change the timing, allowing you to set the base timing. ~Komeuppance


It is then a big moment in my pathetic life: installing the cylinder head, cam and rockerarm assembly. I am going to agonize every millimeter of the way to make sure the timing is as perfect as I can get it.

[royster]

. oil pump installed
. sump installed, oil pan installed
. dampener pulley back on, so I could...
. replace transmission dust sheild
. silent shaft (B) belt installed, absolutely sure of correct timing
. oil pump and silent shaft synced, s. shaft bolted and capped
. belt tensioner in and at the ready

[royster]

I've been threatening to do that for many years. There was always some voice that assured me continuing to be stupid was beneficial.

7899

What a great day in my obscure and occassionally abstract life: the cylinder head goes on! I'm in no hurry to start the engine up, so I'm not pushing myself to have it running by tonight. I'm taking my time.

But the repair has a really good feel to it, and having taken the time to clean the engine compartment was not only satisfying, it made putting the oil pan back on less messy. I was able to reach through the cross brace without soaking my arm in grease. Though I have no running water in the garage, I DO have a yard sprayer that I fill with hot tap water from the house, and I keep a kettle on the kerosene stove...you never know when Julia Child's ghost might show up and want tea...
7900
...and boiling hot water is great for cleaning parts or spiking the temperature of the sprayer water.

Since I have that nice big plastic drip pan (they sell them with rollers...supposedly for storing things under your bed, which is BAD Feng Shui) I decided it was a good time to clean the A-frames and front wheel components: my next task is to rebuild the brakes, and working with clean parts helps tremendously. Getting the truck to move forward comes before concerns about getting it to stop.


A note about service prep: I removed the wheels and the front bumper for this repair. It was worth the few minutes to take them off, as it makes access so much easier. I was able to sit on a box in front of the engine, and read it bed-time stories and chat about current events. With a little sippy~cup, I was able to give the truck hot chocolate and Mai Tai's with little umberellas. We even played a few games of Scrabble, and I let Pony win, because spelling is not a strong point of Mitsubishi engines.

In the scheme of my D-50 story, I had stopped driving the truck because the passenger-side caliper was locking up. I didn't want to stress the drive train or engine, so I had it parked until I could locate brake parts. While waiting, I would start it up occassionally. Starting it up one very cold day the timing belt stripped. Though the truck hasn't moved but some 500 feet in the past month, it has taken me on one of the most meaningful journeys of my life.

And once it's purring happily, no doubt it will help me on my journey to get my head together.


7901

[royster]

Not to be long~winded, but I wanted to take the time to acknowledge a Beginning in my life
7902

She showed up while I was rebuilding the garage, and died before it was finished. She left me the three most precious things her life could have produced. It's amazingly like 'Charlott's Web'.
7903

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mbqQxhp3PB8

[royster]

7904

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wb_Q8y_hXzE

[royster]

Timing is perfect as I can make it without starting it up and using a timing light...which my neighbor has right now. It was a remarkable experience to put all that together. It took two tries before I got that "one tooth" glitch straightened out. That's likely par for the course. The B belt alligns every two rotations (check) and the #1 TDC every 6 revolutions all marks line up (check).

I'm at present putting the intake manifold back on. I set the engine to #1 TDC and removed the distributor: getting to a couple bolts on the manifold will be easier that way.

I hand-cranked the engine several times to get oil circulating from the new pump. ANY SUGGESTIONS OR POINTERS ARE VERY APPRECIATED...I'm not sure what kind of flow I'm supposed to be seeing, or if the pump needed priming...it came fully assembled.

One cool design I noticed is that the cam shaft has a trough running the length of the head that oil puddles in. The cams dip down into it and will always have plenty of oil.

In pouring oil onto the valve asembly to fill the pan up to dip-stick max, I heard leaking below. I discovered that putting the distributor in was important if I'm to add oil this way :) . That was the only leak.

I had the thermostat housing upside-down: the distributor won't go into place if the hose connector is in the lower position.

So for now I'm taking a break, to get away from "myself" for a while. Need to go get some butts and a snack. Any suggestions for pre-ignition I will deeply appreciate. All is well, for now.

[royster]

I'm down to small details, now...set up distributor wires, timing cover, fussing.

At some point, tomorrow, I turn the key.

[Redneckmoparman]

I would unplug the distributor on the firewall and crank it over to prime the pump and get oil circulating just use the key and crank it over for about 30sec id say at least twice it wolnt hurt the starter and if you pull the spark plugs so it can turn over faster without compression it can build a little more pressure

[Redneckmoparman]

Also unplugging the dist will prevent fuel spray and unplug the ignition module to prevent spark which is the small unit on the bracket above the dist

[royster]

I am so grateful for your suggestion, RNMM. I had thought to do something like that, but had no way to verify its sanity. I'll go ahead and do that. I had also thought to simply remove the fuel pump fuse during that process...I have fuel in the lines and fuel rail. While the intake was off, I kept Seafoam in the fuel line.

Also, you experts can validate this observation or dismiss it: I noticed that the coolant temperature sensor sits low in the thermostat housing. The thermostat has an off-center positioning...sort of like a fried egg...and the housing has a beveled bottom. I figured that the thermostat needs to open on the lower end or it will hit the sensor prong, preventing the thermostat from fully opening. Not sure this is true, but if it is, this would cause the engine to run hotter than necessary. There is a little "air valve" at the 'top' of the thermostat (as it should be placed when installing) that indicates to me the proper positioning of the whole unit. Again, the frikkin' book says nothing about this. But by observing the sensor's placement (top of the thermostat housing) and the thermostat itself, this is what I concluded. I positioned it in the way that made the most sense.

EDIT: Thanks to Komeuppance:

your thermostat orientation is correct with the bleed valve at the top, the sensor in the housing will not obstruct it from opening all the way.

It is true that I'm down to small details, but I forgot to mention the radiator needs to go in. I'll put it in last, as the open front of the engine bay lets me see what I'm doing straightforward instead of bending over. I want to back-flush the radiator before re-installing it: Jimmy Hoffa gets around.

Thanks again, RedneckMoparMan. Having some input during this last phase gives me some confidence.

[royster]

I want to back-flush the radiator before re-installing it: Jimmy Hoffa gets around.
For all the fliters and monitors cars have, there is no water filter or any real means of keeping the cooling sytem clean. While you have your radiator out, the opportunity is there to not only back-flush, but clean the coolant fin system. A hand-held shower head is great for this task, especially if you can conduct this task in the bathtub or shower stall. Heck, you might want to get naked and take a shower WITH your radiator...a few candles and some mood music might show your truck you care...intimately.

But if you're not into heavy-metal sex, then you'll just want to get some hot water flowing from the bottom out the top (turning the radiator upside down) and watch all the crap that comes out. When you lose a sock while doing laundry, and can't find it, you'll discover it somehow ended up in your radiator. Why not? It's a perfect hiding place, because no one ever pays attention to it.

Nice hot water back flushing, then spray the fins from the engine-side: all those years, the air flow through the radiator has wedged dust and insects...some of which have since become extinct...and spraying in the reversal of that air flow will dislodge all those hippy squatters residing in the most important part of your radiator.

I do not recommend using a brush or anything else but water pressure to back flush the fins, though some mild cleaner spray won't hurt. Oven cleaner is NOT an option.

Back in the days :oldtimer: when real brass radiators could be fixed and rebuilt, I was told by a radiator-shop guy that there is no need to paint the radiator: the paint acts as insulation and retains just that much more heat. I have opted to actually polish the brass, as real metal radiators are...as Barbie says..."like...fer sher...SOOOOOoo '80's!!" Barbie technically is having an affair with her brother, so I don't listen to her.

I was not too surprised by the rust and gunkus-funkus-ola (ewww!) that flushed out of my radiator: rust had been evident when the cap was removed while the truck was in service. I tried to back-flush the heater core, but apparently there is a one-way valve inside where I couldn't get to. Hopefully the cooling system is mostly clear of particulate and during the course of operation, any residual gunkocity will de-funkify.

RADIATORS: WATER YOU WAITING FOR?

Radiator Trivia

The same guy who carried raw bacon and panty hose in his trunk also kept a can of black pepper. If the radiator sprung a leak, pepper added to the radiator would expand while circulating...you see Arnald Schwartanegger doing this all the time...and if the leak was not too big, the pepper would plug the leak. It caused the engine to smell like beef jerky, but it got you into town where they sell fresh bacon and fish-net panty hose for that REAL party Leonardo DiCaprio promises to take you to.
____________________
For the intial start up and test-run, I'm going to run straight water. It's not that I have anything against bi-sexual or gay water, it's just that straight water will give an additional flush when the engine checks out and gets shut off. After insuring there are no leaks, I will drain the water, then add the proper mix of coolant. Should there be a leak, I don't have to worry about anti-freeze dripping on the floor when the cats might be prone to lap it up. I try to be very careful about that.
____________________
I want to take this time to say a hello to Lee, who visits this site and keeps up with my progress. Lee is a member of my web-sites and a very good friend. His son is not only an expert on these small engines, but is actively looking for a D-50 because he loves them.

So...HI LEE! Thanks for watching out for me.

:wavingyellow:

[royster]

I cranked the engine quite a bit without the ignition connected, but the oil light remained on. I cranked several times for about 10 seconds each time. As the view into the rockerarms is limited to one rockerarm assembly, I can't tell for sure plenty of oil is getting up there. I'm in panic mode.

I went ahead and installed plugs and cranked it up. It started almost immediately, though a very slow idle....struggling yet determined. It didn't run too long, and again I looked in the valve cover and was a bit stressed by the absense of plenty of oil.

I'm going to take the valve cover off and see if I have oil up there. If I don't, I have no idea what to do next: there is no information readily available to me.

[royster]

Apollogies for the panic attack: everything turned out fine.

It started quicker when I advanced (or retarded) the distributor, so I'm not sure if I'm one tooth off on the distributor, but I think the timing could be better.
EDIT: Thanks to Komeuppance:

...are you able to set your distributor near the middle of it's adjustment range after you retimed the belts?? If it needs to use all the adjustment up one way, you are one tooth off with the belt. You NEED to ground the timing adjustment wire near the firewall to set the timing correctly, this tells the ECU not to change the timing, allowing you to set the base timing. Having the cam timing off, or the ignition timing off will make it slow.

I have a seriously ticky lifter, and I have to assume I installed a hydrolic lifter upside-down. Comments welcome. As there is no adjustment on this engine for rockerarms, it's all IN the lifter, and these are new. My intention is to remove the valve cover and inspect them, but tomorrow: this is enough for one day.

NOW THE GOOD NEWS
Once I was confident the oil was getting through, I started the truck up and let it get to operating temperature. The warmer it got, the better it ran...getting its "sea-legs" after sitting for so long, and the battery disconnected, I assume the electronics have to re-callibrate themselves. I was hoping the lifter would pump up, but it didn't.

Even in its rough-tuned state, it still starts with a bump of the key. There was ONE tear~drop leak from the water pump...where I forgot to tighten the alternator bracket bolt that goes through the water pump. Everything else is wonderful. The engine has a good smell to it. There was very little smoke when it started up, and none as it ran. The worst smoke was actually paint burning off the heat sheild: that "high heat" paint obviously isn't meant for that high of a heat. I'll let it burn off and chalk it up to experience.

I drained the water/radiator flush and was happy to see very little crap come out. I refilled the water system with coolant and let it get back up to running temperature so it could mix real well: tonight it's supposed to get down to 19 degrees and I don't want to take any chances.

There was an internal backfire when I gunned the motor, which leads me to think the timing is off at the distributor by a tooth. I could really use some expert advice on that. As the distributor is all the way to one side of its possible travel, I tend to think the tooth thing, but I don't know for sure. [SEE ABOVE EDIT NOTE]

So tomorrow I'll take the valve cover off and see what's what in there. Is it possible to remove the rocker arm assembly without removing the cam, or will the cam come up and whomp me on my stubborn head once the bearing are loosened?

Once the engine has a good bill of health, I'll procede to the disc brake problem. Soon enough I'll be driving my Little Tin Can, but for today, it was wonderfult to hear him run again.

He gets to live in the garage for the Winter.

Also, I went to have photos developed but the one-hour machine was broken, so it will be Tuesday before I can post pictures, but I got some good ones.

[royster]

Does anything happen at 150 posts?

EDIT:

Apparently so.


*royster has reached 150 posts!* 07:48 PM

Oh...and I'm a senior, now.

Great: another reminder :oldtimer:

[royster]

Is it possible to remove the rocker arm assembly without removing the cam, or will the cam come up and whomp me on my stubborn head once the bearing are loosened?
Thinking about it, I should be able to loosen the belt tensioner and leave the cam sit, but I'm interested in seeing how my repair stood up, so likely I'll mark the timing and lift the cam. Since the radiator is back in, I don't have the luxury of seeing all timing marks head-on. Anyone making these repairs...head removal, timing belt replacement or oil pump replacement...I highly recommend taking the extra time to drain and remove the radiator. It will make your life easier and gives you the chance to back-flush, too. The radiator is on with four bolts and two hose clamps. Please be sure to keep coolant away from animals: it's highly toxic. It has a sweet taste and dogs don't know any better than to drink it. Cats, too. If you decide to re-use the coolant, now is your chance to filter it. Old t-shirts work well. (Old t-shirts also make great Shop-Vac filters when cut to the circle-size of the original dust filter, plus you can wash them for re-use).

Removing the bumper served me well, as it allowed better working area, getting righ up to the engine block.
.

BTW, I noticed the temperature guage read significantly lower for normal operating temperature.

The procedure I intend to use today is to remove the valve cover and see which rockerarm is ticking so loud. I should be able to see if the lifter is upside down, and if it is, then I can procede to the timing cover removal, loosen timing belt, then BLOCK THE OIL PASSAGES because don't you know those lifters will drop right into them. The hydrolic lifters fit into the valve-side of the rockerarm and they easily drop out, given the chance. (Why finish high school when you can just drop out and get a GED later?) In putting the rockerarm assembly in, I taped each lifter into place by wrapping electrician's tap around that end of the rocker arm. Once the assembly was in place, the tape easily slides off. Taking the assembly off I am going to try cutting the fingers off a pair of mechanic's gloves, and slide them over each rockerarm end. Hey: four fingers per glove, eight fingers total, should work, huh? I'll let you know. But if I opt to simply flip the lifter in-place (instead of inspecting the repairs) I might not need to go to that trouble.

I suspect that correcting this lifter will affect the idle, which really isn't bad at all, right now. The truck always DID run nice, and now it's happy with good oil, clean coolant and a whole lot less gunk on the surfaces. Having corrected the real reason the engine smoked, I have no need for thick oil. This was an expensive lesson to learn, but I can now pass this information along to fellow Mitsubishi friends. I also know what my little truck wants in order to run happy and healthy. But perhaps the biggest benefit of all (besides driving a cool little truck) is that I can work on my own engine, because I know it, now.

Among other arts I get into, I am a writer. My story, The Old Man's Garage (http://halfpast.oceanfalls.org/index.php?topic=222.msg23394#msg23394), was written many years ago, and it is based on my first impressions of the garage I work in now. But there wasn't anything in that garage when I moved here...except years of abandonment and crap. Over the years, I tried to make it work-able, but until the floor could be installed and the front of the building could be closed off, it was a struggle to keep birds out, and crawl under vehicles (on a sloped, dirt floor). It was inheritance money that allowed me to finally create a shop that I could conduct multiple projects comfortably. It was money well-invested.

And one day, while working on the truck, I realized I HAD lit that kerosene lantern, and allowed the Old Man to live again.

I am he.

[royster]

Once I had the valve cover off, I slipped a piece of paper under #1 intake, which had a lot of play in it. Then I whacked the rockerarm with my hand. This left an imprint on the paper, which showed a circle with a hole in the center. So I knew that lifter was upside down. One was all it took: no need to check the others, the whole thing had to come off.

The glove fingers worked terrific for holding the lifters onto the rockerarms.
7967

ROCKER ARM ASSEMBLY REMOVAL NOTE: Starting in the middle of the assembly, loosen the bolts 1/4 turn, moving outward to each bearing cap in a clockwise pattern. Take several cycles of 1/4 turns to allow the valve pressure to ease up equally: this is so the shafts don't bend excessively during the removal process. Once all the bolts are loose enough to remove by finger-turning, take them out and place them on a cardboard holder with the pattern of their placement. Re-installing them, take care to tighten, again, with 1/4 turns until tight enough to torque to specification.

I loosened the timing belt tension and indeed, the rocker assembly came out with only slight rising of the cam shaft. I had taken the precaution of removing the distributor, just in case...avoiding any possible broken gear teeth. I weighted the firewall side down until I could get a spare bearing to hold it down. I also noticed, while the timing cover was off, somehow the oil pump timing mark was off. I corrected it, but I tell ya, having that radiator off made a world of difference the first time around. I didn't have that luxury this time.

Both lifters on #1 were upside down, the rest were fine. (Photo enhanced to show lifters)
7968

Now for the bad news:

Just as I was setting the assembly down on the workbench I had a serious distraction (cord of firewood delivered) and I'm not remembering if I reversed the exhaust lifter or not. One thing for sure: when I started the engine up, a lifter was still making noise. So I'm not sure of I fried the #1 lifters or not. Having run them with no oil (technically) could have caused them to wear internally. Any comments?


EDIT: Not sure what the problem was, but the lifters DID eventually pump up. The willingness to tear down AGAIN and put back together served many positive purposes. I know the procedure now. AND I was able to put everything back with careful focus and caring detail. It was worth "the extra mile".

After "surgery", when I turned the key, the engine couldn't WAIT to start up. In fact, the choke was working, which it hadn't before...not since I had the truck. It warmed up really nice, and there was no internal backfiring or anything except healthy, strong engine ready for the road...with the exception of a ticky lifter.

No smoke, a happy idle (athough a little high, but I haven't timed it, yet) and a smooth operating attitude. The temperature guage now reads a lower "normal", which I'm happy with: it had always been approaching the center of the guage before all of this.

Practice makes perfect: I get to do this operation one more time, to determine if, in fact, my distraction caused me to forget about the exhaust lifter, or if in fact I need to replace them due to improper installation.

I checked the torque on the head bolts, just 'cause I could. This engine is clean, happy, and better than ever. AND I know it pretty well, now.

I sure wish i could take it for a drive, but with the locking caliper, I'll just have to be patient until those front brakes are fixed.



I ceremoniously put the hood and bumper back on the front end. My Pony is alive once again!

7907

[lush90]

You're really getting to know that truck! Sounds like great progress!

[royster]

Thanks lush90. It's been quite journey.


Anyone got good information about proper timing belt tension? Is the tensioner, alone, the only pressure or do you push the tensioner to tighten the belt a little more? I don't want to over-tighten the belt.

[royster]

Anyone got good information about proper timing belt tension? Is the tensioner, alone, the only pressure or do you push the tensioner to tighten the belt a little more? I don't want to over-tighten the belt.

THANKS (as always) TO BRADMPH - this video showed me a couple of things I did wrong. Since I have to remove the valve and timing cover again, I'll be certain to follow these instructions.

Even at this, there is still no focus on the tensioner, but I get a better idea. I'm sure I'm not the only one who gets hung~up on small details like this.


Timing Belt Replacement & Distributor Reinstallation G63B
Video shows an install of a timing belt and the re-installation of the distributor.
Shows all the time mark line ups on the gears and housing and the positioning markings on distributor
to place it into position correctly.
http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/2373-Timing-Belt-Replacement-amp-Distributor-Reinstallation-G63B

[royster]

jonah was
swallowed by
a whale

7916

[royster]

The oil sump and pan, clean...oil sump installed

7917 7918

Putting it all together

7919 7920 7921 7922

7923 7924 7925

So odd to see the truck like this.
7926

But it's all back together and ready for the road.

This project is finished.

[royster]

The day I took the picture on the left, I knew nothing about that engine. I know quite a bit, now.


79277928

[royster]

This morning I went back and got down to the cam, again. I inspected everything and cleaned as I could. Between what I read on another site, and BradMPH's video, I completely re-did the timing. When it was all back together, it ran so well I could barely feel it run. The ticking is slowly fading away.

In putting it all back together, I took my time and tucked things in their places...so the engine looks even neater than the photos above. I had no sooner backed the truck out of the garage, when the phone rang: it was the photo developer telling me my prints were ready. "Timing is everything", they say...

The timing belt detail made a huge difference: while the engine ran good, yesterday, there WAS a lot of 'deep" vibration I could feel. I surmised the balance shaft was off (amazing what one tooth adds up to over several thousand rpm's of idling) and indeed, it was. By pulling the timing belt from the crank, to the oil cog, to the cam, the balance shaft remained as it should. Hence, very little vibration. I had originally done it in a reverse order. That's why the oil pump gear was off when I opened up the cover. I didn't know that, then. I do now.

At one point, with the truck out of the garage, I was ready to drive it into town to put some gas in it. Alas: the brake caliper was really seizing up, so back into the garage it went for a brake rebuild. Not sure when: though we had perfect weather today for backing the truck out and cleaning the garage, we have a severe cold front coming through for the next few days.

But the engine project is finished. What a journey that was, and one I don't regret. I'm a bit disappointed the experts here remained primarily silent, but everyone's got a life to live. There are other websites available. Besides:I got through it all, just the same.

Very good results.

[pennyman1]

I would have commented more but I have no experience with the 4g64 to add to you work. I live in the carb world of Ram 50 MMM.

[rusty bishi]

lol..give me a hand would ya.

[rusty bishi]

I am no expert by any means,but I can say that looks like a MIGHTY fine job,pun intended.lol I too went into my mighty max with absolutely no knowledge of these trucks.one thing I learned is pull it out ,tear it down,see what broke! actually that's 3 things.

[Redneckmoparman]

yeah it seems all the knowledgable guys here are 1gn carb guys so were kinda left high and dry to learn with eachother on our modern technology but you've done great! and with a killer write up and good pictures that should help everybody learn what to do and what not to do

[BradMph]

We are carb guys cause we bought the trucks when you all were making googly eyes at your babysitters. lol. Pennyman has owned his truck since the time they had Fred Flintstone rock wheels on trucks and you stomped your foot on the road to stop the darn thing. :lmao:

[royster]

Humble bow, and thanks all. What I feel is that I do have a nitch on this forum, for exactly that which is missing. I was NEVER good at carboration, and fuel injection is new to me, but by getting my hands into it, I'm learning.

What I plan to do is write a couple threads exclusively instructional, based on my experience (I have more photos coming), specific to tasks. And the thread titles will be clear so future lost souls can get their hands on it. Who's gonna think to look for clutch replacement tips on a thread titled "Having Trouble, Hemorrhoids Too" ? Or cyclinder head work on "Bad Meth Made Me Do This" ?

It is very satisfying to be at the pause point where I walk around and wipe off little smudges with a clean rag, stereo playing and cats purring. And it won't last long: brakes are next, but I want to bask in the acheivement...and sharing...as long as I can :)

[royster]

Three inches of snow this morning. I went out to start the truck and let it get up to operating temperature. I am continuing to monitor for leaks. There's only one, a tiny drop of what appears to be coolant, in a rather fickle place. It's on the firewall, passenger side of the head, but above the head gasket, and just below some bolt or plug. So it's not coming from the head gasket. Other than that, I am so happy to report no other leaks of any kind.

I get some smoke on start-up, but not a lot. The engine is breaking in to its rebuild (as it were) pretty good, though I wish I could take it out and put it through its paces. Snow and locked brakes won't allow this, and I tend to not argue with God's Plan. With kerosene going for $4.00 a gallon, and temps forecast to be below freezing the rest of the week, I'm prone to give it all a rest, for now.

But we all KNOW about truck~addiction.

The most noise the truck makes when its running is the input bearing on the transmission...or whatever noice that is. It's done it ever since I've had it.

I'm running 10-40 oil (or there-abouts) for now. I'll confess that I added about 3 ounces of Lucas oil stablizer...hopefully enough to quiet the last of the lifter noise, and perhaps minimize the start-up smoke. The oil dipstick reads a little over full...I probably added a half quart or so more than "max" when I originally put the engine back together. Not sure how much that affects the smoking.

'Gonna put the F-150 in 4x4 and go get film developed for posting this afternoon.

RockAuto sent me a discount code. I feel so privelaged :)

[royster]

Photo Finish

7948 7949 7950

Ready to close the hood and call it a day.
7951

7947



View of the house from the garage, just this morning. I bet an old guy is taking an afternoon nap in there with three contented cats while the snow falls.
7955

[lush90]

Wow, it looks so clean I'd feel guilty getting it dirty. Great job! The snow, while it creates a few headaches, sure looks nice for this time of year.

[royster]

Thanks, L90. I already considered the need for "acceptance" that the engine will get dirty. I'll probably never have the chance again to do so much cleaning and care to detail. As Spring arrives, my focus will turn to the paint job: half the truck was repaired at one time and the paint doesn't match.

It's a project truck, those things will happen. But no point in a project truck that doesn't run. First things first, as they say.

We've had 8" of snow, now, and garage activity is out of the question. Got plenty to do in the house, and since I was out earlier, I'm prepared to hunker down for a few days. The mountain-ish backroads to get in here are very treacherous in these conditions, even for a sure-footed F-150.

7956

[royster]

7959
I had bought a grille from a parts truck for my F-150, but found out the one I already had was better. So I made this appropriate-for-a-garage art display out of it. The "headlights" are 1949 Dodge pickup truck half-moon hubcaps. I've had the "Tom Sawyer" plates since the '90's, in various incarnations.

The D-50 parts truck had a nearly-pristine grille, and I now have that on Pony. The old grille will take it's place on the opposite wall where I currently have a graphic I made for that space.

7960

I mentioned, early on, that the board against the wall above the kerosene heater is a flip down table. In the photo to the right, the table is seen on top of my table saw. I removed the table saw for this project. That's Pollux sleeping on the table, when she was a kitten.

7966 7965

[royster]

This morning, just before I closed the garage, I took a last look. It's going to be a while until I get out there again: there's no fighting 4-degree nights and 17 degree days with a mere kerosine heater.

I really enjoyed my nights out there, working on the truck. This view shows the parts truck gathering snow, and Pony tucked in for a Winter's rest.
7969

[royster]

Yesterday at Lowe's I spotted a VersaRack in the bargain bin for $100. I snatched it up without too much hesitation: this will allow me to carry my
24' ladder on the D-50. It's just the sides and cross members...none of the attachments seen on this ad photo, but these racks retail for $300. It was "missing bolts"...which they sell very cheaply over in the hardware aisle.

Score!

8006

[royster]

View from the garage Tuesday. Forecast calls for more snow tomorrow, and well-below-freezing temps into next Tuesday.
8074

It's a whole different world out in the garage, way away from the house, and all of it far away from even a little town. And now that my D-50 is running, it is even worse to not be able to go out there and fuss. MyLittleShitty is in a similar situation, as are many enduring this cold snap: we simply can't do what our hearts wanna.

Disgusting as it may seem, this has forced me to wash the dishes, sweep the floors of the house, and take out the compost bucket. All those domestic chores the garage~world allowed me to escape from have come back IN MY FACE like a stink bug on steroids. I even had to change out the cat litter box.

It reminds me of the Beach Boys song, "My Woodie's outside/ covered in snow".

[royster]

A slight break in the weather today allowed me to get a few things done I just couldn't in freezing weather. I got the Sable started and let it get up to operating temperature. The car had been sitting for a long time, and I wanted to keep everything in good order.

I went to the garage and fired up the kerosene heater, then went into town to get provisions. When I got back I started up the D-50. Boy, it runs GOOD! The problem is: it's blowing more smoke than I care to admit.

Obsessive as I am, I thought about this and came up with three ideas as to WHY the smoke. First, the oil is over-filled...1/4" beyond "max" on the dip-stick. Second, the PCV line could be sucking oil from the valve train. Third, I did not set the valve seals properly. I'm prone to think it's a combination of these factors. Though I replaced an intake valve, I don't think this was enough to bust an oil ring...I scruffed up the valve face a little before installing it, to match the wear of the other valves.

I didn't tap the valves seals down, I simply twisted them down by hand. As posted, I had trouble understanding the concept of installing them. I was also concerned about damaging them with too much tapping, pushing them too far down, etc. . The good news is that this means only taking the valve cover off, not the whole timing cover procedure. The bad news is that I have to do this with the head on the engine, but the experience will serve me well.

The REAL GOOD news is that the garage has some heat tonight, and I can go over there RIGHT NOW and fuss with th' Tin Can for a while: the cold snap is going to be with us another WEEK with no end in sight. Getting a D-50 fix in now might tide me over for a couple days: I'm tired of looking at pictures when the real thing is right next door. (This is the thinking that prompts many teenage boys to get telescopes, but that's another topic altogether).

At very least, I'd like to get the brake calipers off so I can order new ones. I don't want to order new ones until I'm absolutely sure of the model. Also, the core on these is expensive...almost as much as the caliper...so I want them in my hands for core when I pick up the new ones.

[Redneckmoparman]

When does it smoke? Startup? When you give it throttle? On deaccel? These can tell you whats wrong. startup is valve stem and also deaccel if its on accel its rings thats IF its blue smoke white smoke is water or coolant and that can tell me different things

[royster]

Thanks, RNMM. Right now, in this extreme cold weather, it looks a lot worse than it is. But there's no question it's oil, not coolant, and it is at start-up (most) and accelleration (some). I'm resolved to inspect the valve seals, but I have to wait until warmer weather. This causes ache, because the truck runs SO GOOD I can't feel it running and I want to drive it! Not that I can on these icy roads, so patience it is.

I checked the PCV line for excessive oil, not sure what I was seeing, but this just makes me determined to create a catch-can (http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/3065-Catch-Cans-Ideas).

Also will drain some oil to get the level down to "max".

[royster]

Yesterday at Lowe's I spotted a VersaRack in the bargain bin for $100.

It's a Daws Better Built Quantum rack. According to their website, this is a $500.00 unit, though it's shown with all the attachments.
http://www.dawsbetterbuilt.com/shop/quantum-rack/quantum-rack/

I mounted it on the truck bed last night. I'm sure the cats will have lots of fun climbing on it.

I've modified it in my mind 300 times, so far.

[royster]

When does it smoke?

Sometimes after sex, and always after a meal. Sometimes during sex, if we're both bored (but only .0010th over).


:oldtimer: eh, lucky YOU!

[lush90]

If you have the time, you can rebuild calipers quite easily and save some money. Remove calipers, pop the pistons out with a little air applied to the bleeder screw, (cover with a rag so you don't accidentally hit a cat), and inspect piston and bore. Unless there is deep pitting, it just takes a kit and some emery cloth to be back in business. If the bore is pitted, then do an exchange. Could all be done sitting next to the wood stove! Be sure to lube rubber parts with clean brake fluid before installing them. Also an ideal time to flush your brake system of contaminated fluid.

[royster]

Makes sense to me, L-90. Thanks. And the cats thank you, too.

[royster]

8114

˙sʎɐʍʎuɐ 'punoɹƃ ǝɥʇ uı ǝloɥ ɐ ɯoɹɟ ssɐ ɹno ʍouʞ ʇ,uop sn ɟo ʎuɐɯ ˙noʎ ɟo ɹǝʇʇǝq ǝɥʇ ʇǝƃ ɐıxǝlsʎp ʇǝl ʇ,uop 'uɐd lıo ǝɥʇ ɹǝpun ǝɹ,noʎ uǝɥʍ

[lush90]

Okay, how do you do that?

[BradMph]

My experience with engine smoke is...if it smokes at the first startup, usually valve guides or seal are bad. The engine oil sits and seeps through these areas and a startup after a wait will suck the oil into the combustion chambers. The engine heats up and expands a little to seal the areas a little better. If your trucks warmed up and you step on gas and it smokes, this would usually be rings. Oil seeps past the rings while running and pushing the motor harder cause pressure to push oil past those rings. Sounds like your motor may need a little help soon, or for a few more miles I think there is some type of oil treatment that can help hold a rebuild off a little longer.

[royster]

Thank you, Brad. We'll just have to wait and see: I'd like to run it when the temperature is higher than 29 degrees :shakehead:

Meanwhile, I got calipers off, and though lush90 is right about saving moolah by rebuilding my own, I went ahead and ordered remanufactured. The core on these calipers is more than the cost of the remanufactured part!

The parts truck has identical brake parts, and I am coveting them. The driver-side rotor is seriously scored and should be replaced. Ugh. There's always plenty to keep you busy with these trucks.

Tonight is supposed to be 0ne degree F, tomorrow's high 17, but it starts to rise after that, into the high 30's come Thursday. I'd like to take the truck out and blow all the funkola, crapinski and caca~laca out of its system before making any conclusions. At any rate, the truck is running, which is more than it was doing a month ago.

I DID get a bottle of STP with ZDDP additive. My intention is to add about 4 ounces of this to the engine when it's warmed up...I feel okay about that. It's a far cry from filling the engine up with STP and expecting it to crank on a cold day!!

[royster]

BTW, tomorrow...if all goes well...my D-50 will be back in service!

[royster]

BTW, tomorrow...if all goes well...my D-50 will be back in service!

All went well, but I was a nervous wreck until the first 20 miles passed. The truck did excellent over snow and ice, and once it warmed up the smoking stopped. I paid particular attention to smoke occurring at decelleration, but there was none. Got some fresh fuel in it and drove it around. The only thing I noticed was an occassional hesitation...hoping the fresh fuel helps that out. I'm not confident in the timing: the book says to hook up some wire to a thing on the firewall. I simply used the timing light (once the engine warmed up) and set it at about 7 degrees BTDC. It doesn't seem to have quite the get-up-and-go, but I haven't driven it for (sob!) two months and need to re-familiarise myself with it. Any suggestions as to fine-tuning and tweaking will warm this old man's heart.

If it smokes on the next cold start, I think I'll replace the rubber (intake) valve seals with the plastic. While I'm in there I'll definitively check the exhaust seals, but it seems to me that if the seals weren't set properly, they'd be dancing somewhere above on the valve stem.

Bottom line, though: it's back on the road, winter-be-damned.


And not one little leak at all...not one drop!

[OG Arrow]

Awesome Roy ! and Congrats.
I know you took the cats out for a ride ,,, right ? LOL

I've found, as Brad said, that you can get a little smoke when the engine sits for a Long time,
then with regular use, it doesn't seem to smoke at all.
Don't be ascared ,,, but keep an eye on things, and any oil consumption.

[royster]

I know you took the cats out for a ride

Wouldn't THAT be something to see, goin' down the road?

Thank you for the encouragement, OG. I remain pretty confident that a lot of the oil burning since I put it back together is from manifold residual and burning off assembly oils. Sitting at idle, getting up to operating temperature is nothing like actual highway load. I knew that the truck needed a good run at high speeds before I started condemning anything.

I had hastily put a quart of oil too much at first. I drained it out yesterday before starting it up, having also added about 4 ounces of STP with ZDDP. (The ticky lifter is completely quiet. now). I checked the oil level when I got back home: it was so exactly on the line I couldn't see it! So I'll sure be able to monitor oil consumption. But like thillskier, I had been having to add oil every 200-300 miles before all of this. In hind-sight, no wonder.

Yes, I'll be watching this like a mother hen. With ANY major repair (after a failure), it takes some time and miles to re-establish trust in the vehicle. But this truck had given me no reason to think it wants to die.

I'M sure it appreciates the money (and care) I've put into its repair. I think "an arm and a leg" is an exaggeration...

8134

[Komeuppance]

Hmmm, seems I'm a few days late to this thread. Many of the other Mitsubishi engine's tips and tricks are the same across the line up.

A few things I noticed as I skimmed the last few posts, your thermostat orientation is correct with the bleed valve at the top, the sensor in the housing will not obstruct it from opening all the way. I might have missed it, but are you able to set your distributor near the middle of it's adjustment range after you retimed the belts?? If it needs to use all the adjustment up one way, you are one tooth off with the belt. You NEED to ground the timing adjustment wire near the firewall to set the timing correctly, this tells the ECU not to change the timing, allowing you to set the base timing. Having the cam timing off, or the ignition timing off will make it slow.

Smoke at start up only, is almost always valve seals. They need to be seated over the groove of the valve guide, usually they need to be tapped on. Overfilling by a whole quart will not make the engine burn oil. You can clean up your PCV valve with some brake clean usually, it's a simple ball check valve.

BTW, fuel injection engines don't have a choke, but an electronic version which uses a coolant temperature sensor to signal the ECU how much it should richen the fuel mixture.

Your engine looks great, keep up the good work.

-Robert

[royster]

Robert, thank you for your summary. Validating (or disproving) information is important for anyone who comes here to learn or to know.

I feel honored that in three years of your membership, I'm your second post...it's great information. I took the time to edit posts on this thread where your information applies.

I agonised over the timing until it was exact...with the exception of your notation:


You NEED to ground the timing adjustment wire near the firewall to set the timing correctly, this tells the ECU not to change the timing, allowing you to set the base timing.

This helps me understand the process, so I will follow through on this. (My distributor is centered). In writing this thread, I tried to explain the why's of each process, or simply gave an honest observation as I was going through it. When we know why we're doing something, it helps us do a better job. I also had an eye of the future, so I titled the thread informatively. I'm no expert, but I did learn huge amounts about these engines by doing this project. Those experts, like yourself, that have contributed have done a great service to the newcomers who need answers.

Again, my sincere gratitude.

[royster]

Okay! Here's another nit-picky detail I'd like to know about:



Ignition Timing Procedure
The 2.4-liter engine has an ignition timing of 5 degrees before top dead center (BTDC). First, connect a jumper wire between the ignition timing adjustment connector and ground. Then, turn the car on and put the transmission in neutral with the emergency brake engaged. Finally, turn the wheels clockwise and bring the engine to an idle speed of 750 rpm. You can check and adjust the ignition timing after these three steps are completed.
Read more: http://www.ehow.com/facts_7889576_mitsubishi-sohc-ignition-timing-procedures.html#ixzz2rtWDnlcz

What's with the turning the wheels clockwise (would that be 'to the right' ?) and how do we determine this illussive 'ignition timing adjustment connector'? I'm not finding any connector.

But good 'ol Haynes book gives a very specific photo of the hook-up on a Raider. (I'm thinking that's a D-50 on the cover, guys...)

My contempt of these Haynes books grows stronger every day.

Run, Toto, RUN! :dogrun:

[royster]

Could somone take the time to walk me through the process of locating the ignition timing adjustment connector, and how to use it? The only connector I see is connected to the 02 sensor...then there are two on the firewall that I'm certain are for a tachometer. The area the manual indicates it should be points to the o2 sensor connection on the wheel well.

I understand the importance of this procedure, but I am not sure how to carry it out. I'm avoiding driving the truck until the timing is right. I keep searching this forum but it's difficult to find specific threads, and the search feature isn't helping much.

This is the only photo I have that shows the connection I see, it joins with the o2 sensor (red arrow).

8148

EDIT: That is indeed the right location. Below, I hold the cap to the connector, just near the connector itself.

8234

[Komeuppance]

I have a few other posts, just they're not counted in the general section. I have many different Mitsubishis, but was more active on the original forum mightyd50. I see one guy here who copies my posts/information from other sites as if they were his own lol... so I'm sort of here still.

The connector is a one wire plug, not connected to anything. Its fairly big, the same size and shape of the alternator plug.

Use an alligator paper or paper clip to create a good connection to the pin inside, then ground to the intake manifold or block.

I've always set the wheels straight ahead as possible, as per the factory service manuals. The reason is to remove any strain on the engine from the power steering pump so you can determine the correct idle speed. Same goes for any lights/heater/electrical equipment, so the alternator isn't under a load.

Then engine must be at full operating temperature, and there must be no vacuum leaks (check your vacuum lines).

Base timing is 5BTDC on older 4g64's as far as my experiences go.

Marking the crank pulley timing mark with a paint marker, or white will make it easier to see.

Its good that your dizzy is in the middle of it's adjustment range, that means you have the cam timing correct.

-Robert

[royster]

Thanks for the reply, Robert.

[Komeuppance]

Its probably near the firewall, close to where the harness branches off to the intake manifold.

You are doing 1000x better than some newbies I've seen haha. There's always a learning curve with something new.

-Robert

[royster]

From your description, and the one in the manual that says "remove the waterproof cover of...", I think I located it. It IS where the photo with the arrow indicates, but it's wrapped tightly with some other wiring.

This is actually a photo-copy of the cover I took off (I don't have a digital camera) and there IS only one prong inside the connector. The cover has definite seals inside it for water protection.

8153

[Komeuppance]

One wire terminated to just a cover, that's gotta be it. Verify by checking the timing with and without it grounded.

-Robert

[royster]

I was indeed pointing right at it.

8155

Someone taped those wires together pretty tight (it isn't a factory detail). The fender had been replaced at one time, so maybe it was done then.

Like so many things automotive: you only need the one experience to remember for the rest of your life.

Thanks for taking the time for me, Komeuppance. In turn, I can pass information along, with photos, so future newcomers will know. (I took photos of the connection in place, and will post them later).

[royster]

What a difference.

After connecting the jumper line, the timing checked out at past TDC! I adjusted it with the jumper in place, to just the left of the 5-dgree line. Removing the jumper, it registered 10 degrees before top dead center. Checked it again and it remained at 5 with the jumper on. So I know i got it.

I lowered the idle to about 800 RPM: it had been a bit high.

The distributor position is not quite all the way to the left: I will check on timing belt positioning a little later, as I'm still not happy with the valve seals, yet...still some smoke on start-up...so I'll be taking the timing cover off. Thanks to you, Komeuppance, if i have to start all over with the timing belt, I'll know how to complete the task right.

There is some hesitation on take-off when it's warmed up...my impression is the timing belt slackening. It does fine otherwise. My question is: was the tensioner tension enough, or should I have put more pressure on the belt before tightening the bolts?

[royster]

Put the first 100 miles on the repair, and it runs terrific.

After that joy, I went to wash clothes. The washing machine broke.

If it wasn't "always something", we'd be out of a job, I guess.

[Komeuppance]

The factory service manual doesn't state how much pressure to apply to the tensioner itself, just says "apply pressure" and then tighten the bottom adjustment bolt before tightening the top one. It doesn't need too much, just enough to seat the belt in the cam gear enough. Usually letting a new spring in the tensioner apply the pressure is enough.

As far as hesitation, what are your plug gaps set at?? Also might be a good idea to check the resistance range of your coolant temperature sensor, it is a 2 prong sensor in the manifold, should be near the thermostat housing. The resistance at near operating temperature (176F) should be 300ohms. You can test it while it's installed, no need to remove it, just unplug the connector which should have a rubber boot over it. If the ECU is not getting the correct readings, the fuel mixture will not be correct.

Here's the readings you should be getting:
32F 5.9K ohms
68F 2.5K ohms
104F 1.1K ohms
176F 300 ohms

Your local auto store should be able to get a replacement sensor, or they will likely be in stock. Rockauto has them, part # TX32 (Standard brand), this part number should cross reference at a parts store. I highly suggest staying away from the Wells brand sensor, as they are usually junk. Also, make sure to not get one for the gauge in automatic cars/trucks as they are a two prong as well.

-Robert

[royster]

Great information to have, Komeuppance, and thanks once again.

I noticed the hesitation is always when the thermostat seems to be opening...just before operating temperature. The sensor is, in fact, on the thermostat. I DID get a replacement sensor, but the threads did not want to go into the existing opening, so I didn't force it. I had thought to order a new one, and your post prompts me to do so, though I will go through RockAuto, because I haven't had any bad experiences with them.

The sensor I bought was from Advanced Auto.

For those following my daily life~saga: the washing machine mysteriously started working again. Good thing, too: two weeks of no clean clothes got me down to a pair of skivvies, a tie-dyed t-shirt and one sock.

THERE'S a visual for your morning coffee.

[BradMph]

You could of always walk down to the river and banged your clothes on a rock. :lmao:

[royster]

You could of always walk down to the river and banged your clothes on a rock. :lmao:

That would have been a cold-water wash, and these clothes needed a hot water wash. Plus, I don't like the spin cycle down at the river, particularly when it's frozen solid. The EPA is real strict about adding Downy to rocks, around here. Something about the Static Cling Lichen endangerment.

[Komeuppance]

The sensor is, in fact, on the thermostat. I DID get a replacement sensor, but the threads did not want to go into the existing opening.

The sensor in the thermostat housing (cover) is a 1 wire on A/C equipped vehicles, and is an A/C override switch shutting down the compressor if the engine is too hot, around 220-230F.

The 2 wire coolant temp sensor for the ECU should be located before the thermostat in the manifold itself, and is a slightly larger diameter than the other coolant sensors. I'd do a resistance test regardless, as new parts don't always work as they should... what a perfect world that would be haha.

-Robert

[royster]

Yep: the sensor is behind the housing (toward the firewall). A new sensor is on my wish-list.

I thank you for these details: there are 4G64 owners who can resource this information now. It's heartening to see these little trucks being restored and cared for again. (The only "bagging" mine ever sees is concrete, gravel or grocery. An occassional garbage bag to take to the dumpster).
8168

I'm still getting some smoke on cold starts, but it's getting less and less. I'm going to run the engine as-is until the recommended 500-miles head bolt re-torque. That won't be long: I already have 200 miles on the repair.

Next is to address drive-train vibration. The u-joints have issues, and I want to take the drive shaft to be balanced. There is a place in nearby Winchester, Virginia that does this. I will be contacting them Monday, although we're expecting some snow (sighhhhh...again) tonight and this might have to wait.

It was also suggested that the input bearing is worn, so I did order a new one and have it on hand. I'm guessing an output bearing would be a good investment, and will get one soon enough. When the time arrives to replace the clutch, I'll send the transmission out to have bearings replaced. I already changed the gear oil in the transmission and differential...one of the first things I did when I got the truck in September.

[Komeuppance]

You've done a lot of wrenching in a short time period, that truck will be good as new soon!!

Have you checked the tire balance before going to the driveshaft as the cause of a vibration??

-Robert

[royster]

A good suggestion, even though all four tires were new in September. I'm familiar with a u-joint vibration, and it has been getting progressively worse. I replaced the u-joints myself back in October and the vibration was worse, so I put the old ones back in and it was a little better. This one I'm letting go to a professional shop: balancing the drive shaft is a good idea, for the highway driving I intend to do. I'll also let them install their u-joints. That way, they have full stewardship on that component, and I can be sure it's done right.

Though I did not spray paint the drive shaft (I know better) I did remove years of oil~grease and dirt with acetone. I was extremely careful in replacing the u-joints...which is what pisses me off. Nothing hurts more than your best not being good enough. I think there may be some issues a shop will detect much easier than I can.

[OG Arrow]

Wouldn't THAT be something to see, goin' down the road?


Well then here you Go ! LOL

I took one of my cats on a road trip a couple of times ,,, he didn't seem to mind it at all !

Here's Cubby keeping an eye on traffic and checking out the road conditions
while I'm blasting down I-75 in my Neon on a trip a few years back from Detroit to Lexington, KY.
8204 8205

Try takin em for a cruise ,,, you might be Surprised how much they like it.
(and if they don't ,,, you'll know Right Away !) LOL

[royster]

The female twin, I'm almost certain, would be fine for trips. Beethoven (orange cat, now deceased) loved to travel.

I've always thought it was cool to see people traveling with their cats.

The visual I was referring to was the three of them on the ROOF of the truck. If they started yowling, people might think I'm some sort of emergency vehicle!

[royster]

My sincerest thanks to BradMPH, Komeuppance, RedNeckMoparMan, MyLittleShitty, and all the others who helped me through this process. With the engine now as good as I can make it, I'm moving on to other things, until the 500 mile head re-torque. (At that time, I will check out the timing belts and everything else).

I'm about to drop the drive shaft and get that all in good shape. I want to assure that the mount and braces are lined up right...when i removed the transmission back in october, I remember having to force the mount to one side a bit, in order to tighten it. The bolt impressions are still on the crossmember, showing about 3/16" from original installation. I think that makes a big difference in u-joint wear. In doing research on transmission "swapping" from the 2.0 I found that the clutch assembly is slightly different, though the input and output shafts are the same, as is the transmission mount. Parts #'s are identical for u-joints. I'm looking into the possibility of switching the drive shafts temporarily. I'll post about my findings.

Thanks to BradMPH's thread on Mitsubishi color-matching, I now know the color my truck was painted, and can start getting the paint for it. A shop in near-by Strasburg will mix it for you if you have the color code. [Mine is S55] Not sure I want to invest in a paint sprayer and a lot of equipment I'll likely only use once, so I'll see what my options are. The Strasburg shop will actually put the paint in spray cans for you, and I can get good results with a spray can. It may be the guy has a paint booth, and will paint the hood for me if I do the prep. Fenders are a cinch (he said optimistically). At any rate, I'd love to see the truck sparkle as it did when it was new.

[royster]

Got the drive shaft off, ready to take to the shop tomorrow. Definite issues with the u-joints...the rear one has 1/16" play in it, and the foward one has stiff movement. Also need to replace the transmission mount, so I ordered one from RockAuto. NAPA wanted $54 for it, RockAuto has it for $13 (minus my discount, which was 68 cents) :) . Even with paying (under $7) shipping I'm doing well, ($30 well) and it should be here Saturday.

A simple operation to replace.

[Redneckmoparman]

easy for you try having a long bed or a macro cab its a APOSIDFJPBITCHOSEKRFNLQWRHG

[royster]

You've done a lot of wrenching in a short time period, that truck will be good as new soon!!

-Robert

That is indeed true, and I learned every step of the way. It was somewhat of a crash-course to understand the D-50's, but like so many things in life, I only needed to do it once to understand the fundamentals.

I had bought the 1989 truck thinking the parts were widely interchangeable. I have since learned that many changes took place in the 1990 year model, and the '91, too. For me, a better parts truck would have been 1990 or newer, not older. The 2.0 is always carborated, the 2.4 is always fuel-injected. And this whole thread is about the process I went through to change how I view working on engines. It involved getting past some fears and unknown-zones, but I did it...thanks to the help of others.

I've ended up with a vehicle I can work on myself, but shouldn't HAVE to for many happy miles...but if need be, I have a much better idea of the landscape. My next phaze of learning will be to comprehend the electronics we can't avoid on vehicles produced in the past 35 years. When I was in high school auto-shop, electronic ignition was just coming into production, and having graduated in 1975, I never really learned it. Then came on-board computers, while I was still trying to figure out how to log on to WordPerfect 5.1.

My story is pretty much about an Old Dog learning new tricks. I had to get over old mental-blocks in order to do that.


easy for you try having a long bed or a macro cab its a APOSIDFJPBITCHOSEKRFNLQWRHG

Oh yeah: that's the three-joint drive shaft, isn't it? Yikes, I'm glad I chose the simplest one available.

[royster]

I gave it the final test this afternoon: down the interstate at 70 MPH...hit 75 a couple times. Smooth, clean and quiet. So my little truck is not only back in service, it's better than ever...and so am I.

[Redneckmoparman]

yeah and the carrier that bolts on has 2 bolts or studs i cant remember right now but theyre on top so you have no room to get any tools in there but a pair of wrenches and can only turn so far and omg its a HUGE PITA glad to hear yours is smooth and runnin good! i might just get mine going again here soon idk yet

[royster]

Pony, in service, with the ladder rack I found

8235 8236 8237

[Redneckmoparman]

rock on! good seeing it driving now

[royster]

Thanks. It does great on the interstate, even with big-ass trucks passing by. I got over 300 miles on the repair and it just seems to get better every day. I made it earn its keep, today...went to the mountain spring and got water, hauled some sand then hauled a couple bags of trash away. Then went to the Chinese buffet. Depending on what this next storm brings, I'll be driving it to Alexandria (outside Washington, D.C.) this weekend. When I get back, it will be time for the 500 mile head-bolt re-torque and check all the timing again. Theory is, I shouldn't have to do much of anything for 3,000 miles.

I'll hope for the best.

EDIT: From what I can see, it's getting every bit of 25 MPG.

Now that it's mechanically sound (and my trust in it is back on track) I can focus on some cosmetic stuff, and doing something with behind the bench seat, for storage, so those pesky body parts aren't in the public view.

8239.

8240

A RAM ON RYE, HOLDING THE MAYO

8241

[royster]

I can happily report that oil consumption is way down from what it was, just as thillskier reported in his valve-seal replacement thread. The valve seals are - no question - an important component of the engine to prevent oil consumption, but with two dropped valve guides (defeating two valve seals) the consumption was pretty alarming. Having corrected all that, I'm finding some oil consumption (the truck has 217,435 miles on it) but reasonable for the mileage. I'm guessing a half-quart every fill-up, which is a far cry better than a quart every 100 miles. Panrider reports a different oil-consumption problem with his 2.0, and it turned out to be jet valves. He solved the problem by capping off the jet valves.

There is still smoking at cold start-ups, but sitting for two or three hours, then starting, doesn't result in appreciable smoke. This leads me to think the intake seals (soft rubber) are not sealing as well as the plastic seals (on the exhaust). There is (sigh of relief) no smoke on down-hill decelleration.

In other news...

Cats sleeping on top of the truck while I work: they have a way of looking SO comfortable.
8249


I've had good experiences with the disposable cameras, but every now and then, you get one that's just sort of odd. Below, my intention was to take pictures of the engine compartment for future points-of-referrence. This is how the film developed, as it did for the sunset pic I took at the top of the hill.
8250 8251

In the photo below, you can't even see the bridge nearest the house: it is under 6 inches of solid ice. Truck is parked on the road to the garage.
8252

As my life shifts direction, taking me back to the world I came from, I'll be on the forum less (some might be glad for that) but not inaccessible. This forum, and the friends I made here, have been crucial to the road I had to walk for the past 2 months. It is time for me to return to my own forum and continue my writing there, but I will keep my promise of providing a couple threads with consolidated information about my 4g64 2.4 repairs.

As a note to camoit: as my travels pick up, I'll be coming in on different IPs. Just a heads-up on that: my clients let me use their computers when I'm away from home.

[royster]

There are one time use ARP bolts for heads and if I'm not mistaken, also multiuse also. Like I stated in a past thread...I have used my STOCK head bolts consistently for...well I have never replaced them and the truck is a 1986. If you want to purchase the ARP bolts, go right ahead, but be prepared to buy again the next time you change a head gasket.
Mitsubishi had a problem with head gaskets and crack heads years back when apparently they did not tighten the head bolts correctly on their trucks right out of the factory. This caused warping and head cracking in many vehicles, especially the 2.6L. If you do not want to buy a one time use of the head bolts, it will be just fine. The most important part of head bolt tightening is to retighten after you have ran truck for 300-500 miles and it is warmed up when you do this second round. Follow this procedure and you will almost never blow a head gasket unless you severely overheat the engine and try to make it home on 220 degrees boiling steam. Also don't forget to have the head checked for warping. This should be automatically done at head removals. Also replace the head bolts into their same exact holes they came out of.

This is coming up due very soon.

[thillskier]

Royster,
Hey buy with my own truck (and car issues) with the ice and snow, and 1 degree cold last week: bees needed feeding, etc.
Guaranteed your issues are seal related I had to push mine down till they "popped" on. If they aren't secured it will still use oil. When you do the gasket retorque, push them down tillthey don't rotate easily (w/o using pliers). They may need a few miles to reseat. The vibration is Good To GO now? Great post! BTW. Your other forum?

[thillskier]

that's BUSY not "buy" hehe... ALso u can use a socket to install the valve seals....Mine are all the same, work perfect. at 180,000 use maybe 1/4 qt in 5000 miles between changes now!!

[royster]

Thanks, thillskier. I intend to apportion a whole day for the re-torque and valve seals...I sure appreciate your input.


Royster,
BTW. Your other forum?

There are two of them. Take them as you may:

http://halfpast.oceanfalls.org/index.php

http://halfway.oceanfalls.org/index.php

A special thanks to camoit for bringing "the Bonus Army massacre" to my attention. You'll note I cite it on both forums. http://halfway.oceanfalls.org/index.php?topic=3418.msg46681;topicseen#msg46681 and http://halfpast.oceanfalls.org/index.php?topic=1845.msg26695#new

We have much going on in the members-only section, much like MightyRam50 does.

[Komeuppance]

Good to see she's getting work done!!

A note about head bolts on 4g63b/4g64b/4g54b's, stock head bolts are reusable unlike the newer 7 bolt engines(crank bolt pattern) which use torque to yield style headbolts. I'd trust used Mitsu headbolts over cheap replacements, even felpro did not get it right and has slipped up with poor quality control. As long as your bolts are in spec and the threads are good, you'll be good to go.

-Robert

[royster]

Thanks, Robert: that's good information to share with all.

My transmission mount from RockAuto arrived, though I've yet to put it in. The u-joint replacement made a hhhHHHUUUGE difference in all ranges of speed...no more vibrational peaking between 35 and 50 MPH. The transmission mount is going to add to the smoothness, I have no doubt: the old one is oil-saturated and so plyable I'd most likely be able to use it as a sling shot...provided the stress cracks in it didn't snap first.

I recommend a transmission mount replacement to anyone: with shipping, they're 20 bucks. Even a little flopping around at the business-end of the transmission affects u-joint wear and overall vibration.

[royster]

With the new u-joints and transmission mount, the drive train is as good as can be. No vibration and smooth motoring. It may have even helped with shifting a bit (or am I just in love?)

[mylittleshitty]

great job on the truck roy she should last another 200k

[royster]

Thanks, MLS: your help was important for this project, so thanks there, too.

I managed to get a wonderful 80 mile drive in, today, 40 of it interstate cruising. That puts me in the range to re-torque the head bolts and perform the final tuning (valve seals, assure proper timing of belts) which I would have done this evening, but with the winter weather expected to drop up to 12" of snow, I simply parked the truck in the garage until this is over. I'll be hunkered down in the shack for a couple days.

I was reviewing my video production of Essence Of The Fair (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDs7O4j2VLA) on YouTube and decided to update my own forum's archive record of the project (http://halfpast.oceanfalls.org/index.php?topic=1929.msg24992#msg24992). In doing so, I remembered that I bought the truck as this DVD was in production: I was on my way to Staples, in Winchester, to pick up DVD covers. I stopped at 7-11 to get a coffee for the interstate, and the little truck was parked across the street in a car lot. I actually bought it before I went to Winchester. I was driving the little truck that night.

[royster]

Not much going on in the world, it seems. Forum sure has been slow (although the Fear Monger has us all waiting for more eye candy). My own projects are waiting for snow and ice to go away.

It'd be great if some of those members who asked for answers posted some results?

[royster]

Re-torqued the head (warm engine) and replaced intake valve seals. The whole operation took 6 hours, and that was pretty much non-stop. I took off each valve spring in order to replace the intake seal and check the exhaust seal (I gave them some love-taps to make absolutely sure they were seated properly). I had to remove the throttle body (but not the plenum) to get to #2 and 3 cylinders' valve springs. I had the gasket for it left over from the head gasket set so that was breezy.

The rubber intake seals came off real easy, adding to my suspicion that they were inadequate and causing some of the cold start-up-smoking, but I'm sure I have a couple worn valve guides, too. I remain confident the smoking will be minimised, at any rate.

Agonised with the damn timing belt, but finally got it as perfect as humanly possible. You can look through the radiator to see the timing marks on the cam gear and cylinder head. It WAS likely off by a tooth, and the oil pump mark had once again drifted, so all of it got set to factory, then after warming the engine up to operating temperature, electronic timing was set.

That's about all I can do to insure the engine is as good as I can make it. I do want to ask if taking the negative battery terminal off for a while then reconnecting it is necessary, so that the ecu can re-calibrate.

Drove it to town and filled up the tank. According to my simple math, it IS getting around 25 MPG.

[royster]

Some 18 hours after my last drive, I started the truck up. Some smoke, no question, but not nearly as much or as long as before.

My guess is that hot oil (which is thinner) is able to slip down into the cylinder through the valve guides when the engine is off. When the rubber seals were in place, this opportune leakage was worse, and didn't stop until the engine warmed up enough for parts to expand. The smoking today was momentary and quickly cleared up.

I'll probably just have to live with this until I get into the engine in a major way, and that's not happening any time soon. But some smoke is so much better than billowing for two miles.

So, I can leave well-enough alone...

Or...:) ...I could just fill the crankcase with Lucas oil and start all over again.

[royster]

I do want to ask if taking the negative battery terminal off for a while then reconnecting it is necessary, so that the ecu can re-calibrate.

Any input on this?

[lush90]

I was told that if you disconnect the battery, the ecu resets to original settings so you should let it idle for 10-15 minutes upon starting after hooking the battery to let the ecu run through its tests and make necessary adjustments.

[royster]

Thanks, L90: that's what I had heard, and I was curious if this was beneficial or not, now that all the mechanical adjustments have been made. I know from the F-150 and Sable manuals, it is recommended to let them idle for at least a minute after re-connecting the battery. It seems to me that letting the engine/ecu go through their paces of warming up and reaching operating temperature was a good idea.

[royster]

Ever since I got the engine fixed, I've been wanting to do an updated photo, but this winter hasn't allowed for it...until today. On the left, 5 months ago, on the right, this morning:

8404 8405

Ahhhh: that "brushed plastic" look so many women go wild over...
8406 8407

The only way this truck will look bigger than an F-150 is with optical illusion
8408

The ladder rack I found for $100: I had to cut 12-inches off the horizontals
8409 8410

[lush90]

Looks good! What'd you do with all that snow?

[royster]

Looks good! What'd you do with all that snow?

I shipped some of it to RedNeckMoparMan because he asked for some. The rest was converted into mud and flooding.

[royster]

I'm getting some smoke at highway speeds during hard and moderate accelleration.

Scrolling through the maintenance and 2nd Generation threads, it is suggested to look into the PCV and I will examine the air filter, too. Camoit suggests, on one of the threads, to replace the fuel filter.

At moderate speed...say 45 and 50...it occassionally misses, very breifly, almost like water in the fuel. Other than those two issues, this little truck is amazingly quick to start, idles smooth (passes the "antena test" [antena doesn't shake] ) and holds the road excellently. I've passed the 500-mile-mark since the repairs outlined on this thread.

Any other suggestions, observations in regards to the smoking and occassional sput?

[BradMph]

I thought smoke in those ranges and how your creating it would be rings. Smoke when you first start in morning and then it stops I thought were valve guide seals or guides since the oil seeps down them valve stems during the night. If your getting a occasional miss, I would imagine its a plug fowling.

[royster]

Thanks for your input, Brad. You are a valued resource of information and I don't think you get enough recognition for it.

I'm confident most of these problems are coming from the top end. I have a lot of mountains and hills to coast down where I live, and it never smokes going down on those grades. The smoke on accelleration I'm seeing is more gray than white, so I'm wondering if it's something I can correct with a simple consideration rather than do the parts-scatter-shuffle so soon after agonizing repairs. I also wonder if it's connected to the fuel injection I know nothing about.

The plugs are new and burning perfectly at last inspection. It may be the coolant sensor (which I've yet to replace), because the stuttering occurs at a specific temp. guage reading...just before the thermostat opens.

Looking forward to seeing photos of Mitzy, Brad. Thanks again for your help...and thanks to all the others who take the time to assist on the forum. Sharing information and experience is one of the kindest things a person can do for any community.

I've yet to spend time replacing fuel filter, coolant sensor and PCV...the winter is still determined to force us easterners into our houses and cardboard boxes.

[pennyman1]

Put some stabil marine ethanol treatment in the fuel to clear up the crap they sell for gas nowadays - it will clean out the whole fuel system.

[obsidian]

I haven't posted on this site hardly at all, if ever.

I just went through your entire build. Good job. I'm heading out to get some mighty max parts right now but I can't congratulate you enough for overcoming your fear of the mechanics and just getting in there.

And just to mention, a LOT of engines operate on the same basic principles as this one so you can use the knowledge you learned on this to work on a vast array of engines.

[obsidian]

BTW, I need to update my profile. I have a 90 Eagle Talon that is tuned up "just a bit". I have a 95 Max.

[royster]

Thank you for your kind acknowledgement, Obsidian. I'm grateful I had this website to document the whole process, and the expertise to help me through it. In many personal ways, this project was life-transforming. And I succeeded in getting a very satisfying result.

I'm confident there are a lot of old guys like me who gave up on working on their own cars for the same reasons I did - it seemed too far away from what we could do. As you note, 'fear' was the largest obsticle, which applies to almost anything in life. This project reinforced some great personal values in me, and I hope that by sharing the experience, others learn the full spectrum, too. "Half-measures availed us nothing" was really illustrated by this project, while also reinforcing "do it right"...a virtue that had been eroding in me, and I hadn't noticed. Making excuses for not doing things (or doing them haphazardly) causes such erosion, making way for half-measures and (as Merrill might say) "ghetto modifications/repairs". In my professional work I give the full attention to detail and longevity: this project reminded me that I need to do this for myself, too, if I'm to "walk my talk".

Thanks again for the recognition, Obsidian.

8442

[royster]

Ordered a coolant temperature sensor from NAPA - the one I got from Advanced had the wrong threads - and I have that in-hand. I'm in the midst of a small job (home improvement) and need to get that finished (hopefully today) so I can spend some time addressing the details of the truck, the coolant sensor being one of them.

Not sure that I didn't feel a bit of clutch-slippage last night...I'm hoping not, but in any case, when I DO replace the clutch, I'll send the transmission out to have the input bearing replaced. I have no doubts that will eliminate what little drive-train vibration I have, and (as one member suggested) perhaps restore smoother shifting.

1,000 miles since the repair, truck is getting 25 MPH and oil consumption is way down, now. Very little smoke on cold starts. Last gas fill-up was at a place that sells 100% pure gasoline, no ethanol.
________________________________
Sable News: I sent the Sable out to have the Vehicle Speed Sensor replaced...something I simply can't do here because the car needs to be up on a lift to access that location. This is a mechanic I know from the area and he is doing this in his home shop. He'll also connect up to the on-board computer and see what's going on with codes, etc.. It's my hope he can give the car a clean bill of health, then I can sell it knowing it will give the next owner some good, trouble-free miles. The money I get from that sale will finance further truck improvements.
________________________________
Rumor has it that this winter is sticking around well into May. For all of us Rammers/Maxers in the Atlantic Region, this is agonizing, as we want to be able to fuss with our trucks, and can't...not like we'd like to. The Farmer's Almanac calls for yet another significant snowfall in March.

MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!

[BradMph]

Rumor has it that this winter is sticking around well into May. For all of us Rammers/Maxers in the Atlantic Region, this is agonizing, as we want to be able to fuss with our trucks, and can't...not like we'd like to. The Farmer's Almanac calls for yet another significant snowfall in March.
MAKE IT STOP!!!!!!!!!

We got our last bit of snow that sticks blown away and where ever it goes to stick again is not our fault. These are just some of the perks of west coast weather....oh ya....radioactive ocean water from Japan is our next weather storm rolling in. Thank You Japan...Surfs Up! :)

[royster]

Ah, yes: Nu, Clear days ahead
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEmJ-VWPDM4

[royster]

Though some might not approve, I used straight 30 weight oil when I changed the oil...about as thick as I'm willing to go. However, there is not ANY smoke on cold start-ups, now...impressive for an engine that may have 218,000 miles on it (not sure that the odometer tells the true story...it could have been rebuilt at some point, and I'd never know). Getting 25 MPG and better. I did replace the coolant temperature sensor but still get some hesitations at thermostat-opening, but once the engine is at operating temperature, it hums like a happy sewing machine. Even during warm-up, there is little vibration. There are times you can't feel it running.

I'm very happy with the repairs. The u-joint replacement really made a huge difference eliminating vibrations in the drive train. Some day in Spring, I'll replace the clutch, and while the transmission is out, I'll have the input bearing replaced. The input bearing still makes noise with the clutch out, but it hasn't gotten any worse since I bought the truck some 5,000 miles ago.

Having the shock absorbers replaced was a really good move, as the ride is spirited and handling is actually kind of cocky-determined (in a good way).

And somewhere in the future, I would like to take the bed off and address the typical rust issues of the frame. There is some body 'cancer' in various places that will sytematically be eliminated over time.

It IS, after all, a project truck. My goal is to keep it as stock as possible, with useful modifications.

8651

[royster]

(BradMPH on the For Sale forum rerding my '89 parts truck):
"And another one of our respected trucks becomes an organ doner and sent to the crusher after dismantling, never too be seen again."

With RamBam having just taken some more parts from this truck, it occurred to me that parts from this truck have gone to members here, coast to coast. If the forum has a form of "communion", this certainly qualifies! :grin:

8775

I have died-eth soest thou might liveth
and putteth thine foot on the gas pedal,
goething evermore.

[royster]

I like the top 2 inches of plastic naugahyde removed from the door panels, revealing the painted metal. But there are clamps on a strip of metal to stretch the plastic and attach to the top of the door. That strip has holes to fit in. I agonized about how to trim that out.
8831

I had a couple ideas, and one was to use plastic chrome stripping with self-adhesive backing. I didn't want to go that route, but finally got desparate to do SOMETHING. Turns out, it works okay. We'll see how summer heat affects the trim pieces. For now, the adhesive is holding good.
8832

[royster]

When I first got the truck, I figured it was just an old truck, and I could do anything to it while ignoring symptoms. One such misconception was to remove the check-engine light, because it kept coming on...more of an annoyance than anything.

I learned this is not "just an old truck", but a very special friend, and I need to listen to 'him'...that includes the check-engine light, and all it is trying to say.

So I replaced (re-installed) the CEL recently, and found that it comes on with specific coordinations. In short, it's telling me the throttle positioning sensor needs to be adjusted. What little misfiring/non-firing I experience is exactly times when the throttle is adjusting back to idle and at cruise. The service manual gives instructions on how to adjust that, and it requires an OHM meter. (My thanks to Redneckmoparman for suggesting the DVOM: I got one yesterday). (Further thanks to noahwins for the information about the "service req'd" light in another thread: I put together that this light is essentially to remind us to replace the timing belt).

My thanks to the whole forum for the pool of knowledge here.

Though I've complained about the Haynes book, having experienced seeing those without a book at all makes me appreciate having the specs and steps on hand in printed form. I need not rely on the internet for basics while hoping for no power outages when I'm working on the vehicle.

The first "official" meeting of the mid-Atlantic MR50.net group happened yesterday when I went to RamBam's town. Taking route 11 was a pleasant drive that also helped me get 30 MPG. As my oil consumption is still higher than I'd like it to be, I avoid the high speeds and stress of the interstate, and tooling along at 45-55 sort of is a return to sanity. Those speeds are optimum for any engine, and at least with the Virginia chapter of the mid-Atlantic meets, these two-lane back roads might be a trademark we can live with. Until that distant future when my engine is rebuilt, sure-footed motoring is preserving the longjevity of my little truck. Even then, the interstate has gotten old, for me: I have no need to let life pass me by, or pass life by. "Getting there quick" to hurry up and do things so that we can hurry up and speed some more so we can hurry home makes no sense to me.

When life is over, and we're asked what we did with it, how sad it would be to have to report "I went fast, I saw little, and oddly, there was no time to appreciate much." Gandhi said it best decades ago:

"There is more to life than increasing its speed."

Photo from yesterday
8860

[BradMph]

Check engine light has a tiny switch under dash, which I'm sure you saw as well. Just flipping to the other side allows it to go another 50K miles.

Nice little read to Roy. Enjoyed it!:)

[royster]

Check engine light has a tiny switch under dash, which I'm sure you saw as well. Just flipping to the other side allows it to go another 50K miles.

When I first detailed the truck, I took the instrument cluster out and completely disassembled it for cleaning, so I most assuredly saw that switch, and have since learned its function.


Nice little read to Roy. Enjoyed it!:)

Thanks, Brad. I'm confident the older guys here know exactly what I'm saying.

I was munching a sandwich in the local truckstop one day, wondering why travel wasn't as satisfying at it was when I was a boy. It dawned on me that the interstate facilitated the homogenization of the whole country: there aren't any unique charactoristics along the interstate, it's all corporate sameness at any stop. I was munching on a Subway sandwich, in a truckstop that was once a home-made food landmark, torn down for the construction of Arby's and other "familiar" businesses.

The backroads still hold the promise of unique businesses, hidden treasures and down-home humanity that doesn't need high-speed anything. If cancer is defined by unlimited, unregulated growth, then the corporate take-over is surely cancer in another form. Accepting corporate logos as "familiar and safe" is the acceptance of cancer, select your shock~face to wear (Wal*Mart, aisle F-86) when you realise it's killing you and everything else.

Even Denny's is coasting on a nostalgic image, when in fact there is nothing on the menu from yesteryear. It's an imitation of what once was.

Kids today have built-in televisions everywhere they go, including the family car. Instead of eagerly watching the view outside, their journey is full of Disney fluff and entitled corporate hamburgers at the next stop. Natural beauty is part of the human experience: when that becomes electronically synthesised, there's no question humanity is losing touch with itself...and willingly allowing it to happen.

I choose to march to the beat of a different drum. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-PmmMG-6mwo)

[Redneckmoparman]

http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/redneckdodgecowby/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/183076D7-89DF-4407-8FBB-6E3D7EF19E9C_zpssmwsdeno.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/redneckdodgecowby/media/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/183076D7-89DF-4407-8FBB-6E3D7EF19E9C_zpssmwsdeno.jpg.html)
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/redneckdodgecowby/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/47EF5D0B-325D-4BE6-82ED-B1FE20D641A9_zpsco2o6vi8.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/redneckdodgecowby/media/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/47EF5D0B-325D-4BE6-82ED-B1FE20D641A9_zpsco2o6vi8.jpg.html)
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/redneckdodgecowby/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/DF486FA4-E63C-4F40-A2D5-B5BB10559AF3_zpsytwj1ccy.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/redneckdodgecowby/media/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/DF486FA4-E63C-4F40-A2D5-B5BB10559AF3_zpsytwj1ccy.jpg.html)
http://i138.photobucket.com/albums/q257/redneckdodgecowby/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/58ABE8D7-D72F-4DAF-8B29-1BBFB1D44A82_zpseyss0gdq.jpg (http://s138.photobucket.com/user/redneckdodgecowby/media/trucks/Ram 50 Sport/58ABE8D7-D72F-4DAF-8B29-1BBFB1D44A82_zpseyss0gdq.jpg.html)
theyre blurry but its mostly readable lol

[royster]

Wow, quite an appreciated post, RNMM. And you were right: what a pain in the puh-tookie.

Will post later about results. Thanks again for your help.

[Redneckmoparman]

well? howd it go? want me to take better pics of those? id love to copy the thing so everybody could have access to the complete manual but the thing is big and that would take forever lol but yeah it seems its a big process to do a lot of things on this where as my neon is stupid simple and super reliable and gets amazing gas mileage which is why im swapping lol not to mention being a dodge guy i want my little dodge truck to have a dodge heart but thats more than a lot of people can handle by themselves

[royster]

I got into it enough to have a feel for what to connect. I did get read-outs from the ECU but I still don't understand a lot of it. Also was able to get a read-out from the TPS but it was way off...not sure what to think. Anyway, what you helped me with got me this far, and I'll keep working with it, but it was getting dark and I had things to do. I also want to keep reading up on it so I have a better idea how to procede.

Am I to understand I have to take the ECU out? Or is there a connector coming off of that? It looks like I have to take it out, but then it will be disconnected. So I have to keep studying until it makes sense to me.

Someone recommended taking the ECU out, anyway, to check for leaks on the capacitors.

I need to get the engine up to operating temperature, and will allot some time to do that today, make the adjustments as I understand them, and go from there. Between what you've provided and my manual, I should be able to get good results.

[royster]

Some few thousand miles after the Big Repair I have two leaks: one is the heater pipe that goes into the water pump, and the other appears to be valve cover-related. Neither is a hemmoraging gush, but they aren't going to improve with age.

I had used Peak radiator flush, and though I drained it, I didn't flush the system as the Peak instructions recommended. I have my suspicions that it may have eaten away at water system seals, so I'll flush the system good and put new coolant in. The water pump connection requires an O ring.

To do this right, I have to remove the timing cover and make sure all the bolts are torqued...this hopefully isn''t a camshaft seal not tight enough, but the only way to be sure is get in there and see. It allows me to check the oil pump bolts' torque.

It's a pain to do things right. But as Ann Landers said years ago:
"It's funny how people can't find the time to do a job right the first time, but manage to find the time to do it over and over again."

[royster]

I moved my parts truck around to the back of the garage...poor starter motor got a workout, but I managed to get it up a slight hill, then backed down onto ramps. The final dismantling will happen there. I'll catalogue available parts.

All's well on the oil leak: just needed to adjust the torque on the valve cover. Water pump leak is being put off (ruh-roh!). Also haven't been able to do anything with the digital voltmeter.

[royster]

Time to offer a deep 'thank you' to the forum and all its help, and to bid adieu to friends here. Though my home internet service will be terminated, I'll pop in from time to time by remote means...so it isn't "good bye", just "see ya down those backroads".

Wishing each of you well~

Roy

[ggobe56]

Good Luck Royster!

[lush90]

Roy, stay in touch. Have really enjoyed your adventures and commentary, you've gotten a lot done!

[noahwins]

Happy trails, dude. Hope to see you around these parts again, you injected a lot of enthusiasm into this forum.

[royster]

Happy trails, dude. Hope to see you around these parts again, you injected a lot of enthusiasm into this forum.

Thanks, Noah. It's been quite a journey.

Last week the Little Tin Can turned 220,000 miles, translates into something like 2,500 miles since the major repairs. The smoke problem has long since been memory: who'd have thought simply replacing valve seals would do so much, but there it is. With all I've put into the truck, it runs smooth, quiet and clean. It's been in service for carpentry and home improvement, perfect for what I got it for as regards economy and ease of use. The ladder racks I got have been a real boon: I've hauled my 28' ladder, 14' boards and other lumber with ease...bungie cords make for quick on/off.

It's become my primary transportation, giving me from 25 to 30 miles-per-gallon. It gives the F-150 more time out in the pasture.

I finally got an analog voltmeter...$9.97 at Mal*Wart. It was wonderful to "listen" to my truck's communications on its own terms. It was complaining about the throttle-position sensor, which I've been agonizing with for a month, now. Long story short, I just ordered one from RockAuto...even with the discount, it was $135.00. But that's what the root of my operating problems are, so it must be done. I went the distance in hooking the voltmeter up to the ECU and verified that the TPS is pretty much fried.

Everything else is great about the truck, though I haven't been able to do leisure work on it: spring and summer have had me working a whole spectrum of projects, not the least of which is my garden. And, of course, I keep 4 acres mowed.

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The plastic-chrome strips on the doors have held up well, even in the summer heat. It was a great solution to an annoying problem. (For those who don't know: I modified the door panels, cutting off the top 2" of naugahyde, which exposes the door's painted metal underneith, nearest the window. Square holes were visible where the top of the panels attached near the window. These self-adhesive chrome strips covered them up perfectly).
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[royster]

What a huge difference the new throttle position sensor made! The truck ran well before it, but the CEL was always coming on, and the truck would hesitate at about thermostat-opening, and a few other times.

With the new TPS working with all the other components, it runs really terrific. I'll be fine-tuning it soon, but right now the F-150 is in my garage with a leaf-spring frame bracket rusted and tearing. About 1/2" of metal is keeping the rear end up on the passenger side. RockAuto and Advance sell the replacement part, and I have one at the ready...it's getting the old bracket off that's taking time...and the disintegrated rubber bushing.

Not that anyone here gives a rat's ass, but here are a couple pictures of my garden.

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Anyone interested can see and read more about it at http://halfpast.oceanfalls.org/index.php?topic=2024.msg27925#msg27925 ...it features some pretty inovative designs, not the least of which is an underground water feed from kitchen drain water.

[royster]

Now that the truck is running great with no deferred maintenance, I can start thinking about some cosmetic changes. The following photos were taken this morning.

I'd love to find some bucket seats to install, so I'm not going to agonize over my Indian blanket seat covers: they cover that dreadful factory "baby-shit-brown" plastic upholstery. My home-made console, too, will get upgraded when bucket seats go in. Last but not least, I want to modify the door panels.

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I'll start working on body work and paint soon. Meanwhile, I'm going to paint the hood of the parts-truck black and use that until the original hood can be painted the Sahara Gold the truck was originally painted.

The truck was involved in a collision sometime during its history, and the paint was never matched very well. The clear coat also gave up the ghost. I will remove the fenders and recondition them off-frame. Hood, too. The rest of the trucks' paint and clear coat are fine, though I will have some rust spots to contend with eventually.

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The F-150 just got new u-joints, and in conducting that repair I found the leaf spring mount on the passenger-side severely rust-damaged and cracking, so I replaced it with a whole new unit...5 hours worth of banging, hacking, drilling and enduring rust falling on my stubborn head. I'll replace the driver's side later: it isn't in critical condition. The truck then got a much-deserved cleaning, in and out, after such great service over the winter.
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[royster]

What a huge difference the new throttle position sensor made! The truck ran well before it, but the CEL was always coming on, and the truck would hesitate at about thermostat-opening.

With the new TPS working with all the other components, it runs really terrific.

$135.00 well invested: I was able to get the idle where it belongs, and therefore properly time the engine...you can barely feel it run.

I opened the old TPS up to see what's inside. It's a thick, circular circuitry board. Three prongs make the connections inside when the throttle is opened or closed. Though the electronics are beyond me, the positive results of replacing this part cannot be exagerated. I ordered it through RockAuto and used the discount code.

Next parts order will be leaf spring bushings...about the only part of the truck I haven't touched, yet.

I'll also be switching out the rear window, using the nicer one from my parts truck. My understanding...via info from Merrill and Noahwins...is that this is simple to do. I'm guessing to start at the bottom. Noah spoke of using a lubricant, and I'd be prone to use mineral oil. Any comments are very welcome.

[royster]

Started the D-50 up this morning and it was blowing smoke. [Incert cuss words here]. My guess is another valve guide dropped. I'm waiting to see. If I have to re-do the head-job, I'll certainly have had enough practice to do it swiftly. (If it IS dropped valve guides, I'll just have them all repaired. It is unlikely valve seals wear out in 4,000 miles). The smoke stopped after warm up, so we can be sure it is valve-related.

I spent a LOT of time and energy locating chrome beauty rings for the front tires, but I finally prevailed. I also painted the parts-truck hood black (with some satin enamel I already had) and switched the hoods out: I can work on restoring the original hood off-vehicle.

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[royster]

While rummaging around a junkyard a few days ago, I visited the only D-50 they had. Poor thing was stripped pretty much, but I noticed the instrument cluster (always looking for the Sport cluster) and while it was standard, it DID have a trip-meter on it. Interesting. I was tempted to get it, just for that feature, but decided to hold out for the real thing.

The junkyard I found is a treasure-trove of stuff. I'll be going there for bucket seats, and also to look for the illussive chrome rear bumper I want.

Haven't checked the valve seals, yet: I'm tolerating smoke on start-up, for now. Once it's warmed up, no problem. I deleiriously hope for just improperly installed valve seals, but I also accept it may be the valve guides, meaning the head has to come off, again. I'm not worried, either way: it drives fine, for now.

[royster]

While rummaging around a junkyard a few days ago, I visited the only D-50 they had. Poor thing was stripped pretty much, but I noticed the instrument cluster (always looking for the Sport cluster) and while it was standard, it DID have a trip-meter on it. Interesting. I was tempted to get it, just for that feature, but decided to hold out for the real thing.

Thanks to a 'heads~up' from Lem Forder, I got a lead on a sports cluster on Craig's list.

One component I'm putting priority on is finding a gas tank, with fuel pump intact, from a 2.4 fuel-injected model. Last year, when I dropped my tank to fix a leak, I was able to see how badly rusted the nuts-n-bolts were: it's obvious that repairing the tank would take much more work than I care to do. Finding a tank in decent condition will allow me to spend that same effort on making it serviceable. My main concern is the fuel pump deciding to die while I'm out remote, somewhere. A serviceable tank would prompt me to replace the pump with a new one, for (hopefully) some worry-free driving. You can't gravity-feed a fuel injected engine in a pinch.

In other mundane and obsessive news, I'm cleaning up the little center hub caps that originally came with these trucks. I'm photographing the process. Instead of painting them standard black, I've stripped them and polished the steel. So far, the results are good, and I hope to get a rally-wheel affect when it's finished. These caps are impossible to find, and most are beat up from tire-changers whacking them out of the center with a hammer. Retaining the stock parts is one of my obsessions. Custom rims do look good on these trucks, but my choice has been to keep it as stock as possible. There are a few stockers on the forum, and I know they appreciate the retaining of genuine factory features.

[royster]

Some photos of the "tuna can" hub cap project. While I had the wheels off, I clear coated them.

Here's what I starterd with, and then how it turned out. (The flash doesn't do it justice).
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I found that a stripping wheel was perfect for inserting into the cap in order to spin it. Discovering this, I was able to do the whole process in fairly little time.
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I had 3 caps off the parts truck (I gave one to a forum member some time ago) which were in better shape than the ones my truck came with, so I used those and the best one from the original set. Spray paint stripper first, then a series of sandpaper, stripping pads (the plastic ones) and on some of them, wire wheel for stubborn spots. Some un-denting was conducted (carefully).
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When pretty smoothed out, I used a series of rubbing compund, polishing compound, and finally PlaticX (for headlight polishing) and some mother's aluminum polish...using an old t-shirt and the hand drill. It turns out that the center indent is exactly the size of a 2" PVC coupling, so I used that to spray a center accent (hammered paint). I experiemented with clear coating a finished product, but it diminished the shine, so these are all protected with some McGuire's polymer wax.
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The truck was happy about the upgrade.
10795

These photos are literally photos: I use a disposable camera, have the film developed, then scan them to my computer. A couple pics came back with some interesting lighting affects.
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I need to take some daylight pictures of how well the wheels came out...they very much look like rally wheels, but most of the photos were taken last evening, when I was finally done, so I used a flash...and the images suck.

Today I took out the "redneck air-conditioning" rear window from the parts truck, and spent a good part of the day cleaning and restoring it. I got it installed this evening, and it looks terrific. Photos another time. And I do agree with those who said removing and installing the back windows is easy.

[geezer101]

Nice work Roy, nothing like a bit of spun finished metal. Your wheels have got that cool 80's retro look to them. Might be time to invest in a second hand D-SLR camera, a shutter remote and a tripod. After some experimenting with a D-SLR, you'll find it is nearly impossible to take a lousy photo with. The tripod and remote will allow you to take photos in really low light and still look pro (handy for those 'work in progress' shots in the garage at night)

[BradMph]

Good thing you can paint good because the photography is a little rough

[pennyman1]

man you are tough ... he explained why they were not so good.

[royster]

Truth is, a digital camera is not on my priority list, though it is likely in my future. The days of developing film are quickly coming to an end, joining the list of harder-to-find items like chrome beauty rings and pre-1975 bumpers...more symptoms of my younger days fading into fast-food plastic obsolecense. In the meantime, this is what I've got, and it's how I'm able to share.

The rear window is in and looking good (crappy photos later) and at present I'm installing some bucket seats I got at the bone~yard.

The junkyard I got them from is huge, and fairly old. But that '73 AMC rear chrome bumper I want is going to take a lot of searching. In searching the junkyard it becomes really apparent how much plastic has gone into and onto cars in the past 20 years. Though these little trucks require a few expensive sensors, it's nothing like what's on cars today: I really DON'T need an idiot~light on the dash telling me my tire's air pressure is low. I hail from the days when you rolled your own cigarette while the VW warmed up, you checked everything yourself (or there were "service stations" that did those tasks as a standard...and employed people) and you didn't rely on some sensor/device to shift into 4-wheel drive when IT feels you need it.

It's not so much my holding onto nostalgia as it is retaining good, solid serviceable stuff that works reliably. I'm hands-on with the basics in my life, and there is much sanity to being self-sufficient, as many on this forum will attest to. My joke about "driver-side fart sensors" isn't too far from the truth: people seem to be out of touch with the roots of modern mechanisms, like where telephones came from (this includes phone booths) or hand-cranking an engine to get it started (I did this once, in my life: a 1958 Morris Minor).

If you've forgotten your roots, you're out on a limb...without foundation.

[Conclude rant, thank audience, return to Time Machine]

[geezer101]

I think part of the appeal of owning an old school vehicle is the simplicity of maintaining it, the reliability and if something does go south - you have a fighting chance of being able to roll up the sleeves and fix it yourself. Plus old cars can take a beatin'. You lean on a new car and the panel will buckle under you. Yeah it can be 'fun' hunting down something that is broken or worn out on a 20 year old + car/truck, but chances are there's a compatible part that, with a few tweaks and some lateral thinking, will do the job. That reminds me - one of the local pick-a-part yards recently got in a complete and running L200 that I need to go check out before the idiots turn it into a skateboard...

[royster]

Rally Wheels
Recent rain brought signs of rust on the newly-stripped caps, so I have polished them with paste wax. I'll have to do this occassionally in order to keep that look.
10839 10840

Door Panels
I finally removed the door panels from the parts truck, and made templates. I did some experimenting, and though I'm not real happy with this round of "look", it gave me experience in working with various materials and approaches. These are the original door covers hashed over: later, I'll make new panels, but for now, this spiffies things up a bit.
10841

Bucket Seats, Rear Panel, Rear Window Exchange
Ah, these wonderful bucket seats! What a difference, although I now know what Merrill was talking about in regards to losing a few inches of seat adjustment when you convert from the stock bench seat.

These came out of a 2001 Saturn, and fitting them was no small issue. I was very lucky to have the parts truck bench seat hardware to use. I therefore had two sets of track to build on, and yes: the holes and bolts are under the carpeting, you just need to locate them.

While the bench seat was out, I fabricated and installed a rear panel. I wasn't 100% happy with the end result as far as appearance, but you don't really see it much, in service.

I removed and rehabbed the rear window from the parts truck...a much nicer one than what came with my truck, and works so much easier. In using acetone on the interior painted trim, I found it easy to expose the aluminum, so I went with the shine of aluminum inside, metalic gray (with clear coat) on the exterior.
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What The heck...?
In making a new console, I used the parts truck center hump to mold expanding foam inside the console. Wax paper on the floor keeps it from sticking, the weight holding it down assures an absolute perfect fit. Looks like hell, though.

And, yes, noahwins: that's a blue steering wheel, but I need it to move the parts truck, for now. You're welcome to it when I'm done. PM me for arrangements.
10848

[camoit]

Clear coat them and they won't rust. Just remove any wax with lacquer thinner.

[geezer101]

Maybe try something like penetrol in a spray can to seal your centre caps. There are a number of metal clear coats but most of them are either expensive or toxic (or both).

[royster]

Clear coat them and they won't rust. Just remove any wax with lacquer thinner.

Maybe try something like penetrol in a spray can to seal your centre caps. There are a number of metal clear coats but most of them are either expensive or toxic (or both).

Thanks for those suggestions. I had tried to clear coat them originally but it seemed to diminish the shine. However, I'll try a metal clear coat and see what the results are.

Camoit, do you prefer laquer thinner over acetone? I've used acetone all this time but never tried laquer thinner. (Anyone else's opinion is welcome, too).

I appreciate the replies on the Painting Plastic Interior Parts thread, too: working with plastic is a new thing for me, and it certainly has its own rules and requirements. Thanks Pennyman for the TSP suggestion, I'll do that and every precaution offered by the other members. I hope to get good results.

For the resourceful do-it-yerselfers on the forum: I'm creating a console (glorified cup holder) using plastic parts from the parts truck...steering collumn cover, pillar covers and that worthless plastic arch under the dash. It's coming along nice, but the painting will be crucial for it to really work, visually. Some teaser photos follow.

[royster]

Some will get a laugh out of this venture: it looks ridiculous, I'm sure, but it is working well so far. I'll let the photos speak for themselves.

10849 10850 10851

How I started out...
10852

[geezer101]

A Mitsubishi mini truck with CUP HOLDERS? Nice work Roy. It might look a bit industrial, but it's practical and a first attempt at my guess so I'll give you two thumbs up! I'm toying with making my own roof console for a mechless head unit and courtesy lights so it might be enough to inspire me to give it a shot...

[BradMph]

10860

OAK with piano hinge top for storage with arm rest and unused ashtray for fuses and tiny things lol... :P

[royster]

A Mitsubishi mini truck with CUP HOLDERS?

Indeedy, AND coin holder.

Thanks to all the suggestions, it's painted and installed, with working electrical, too. I did use the TSP and scrubbed real good. Then I used a plastic primer, waiting well beyond the recommended time to start painting. As advised, I took my time, light coats, and the results are terrific. Photos soon.

There are also arm rests in the center, I'm about to cover them with padding and upholstery, and the project is finished. I hope you will be stunned by the results.

[royster]

OAK with piano hinge top for storage with arm rest and unused ashtray for fuses and tiny things lol... :P

Awesome!

[Redneckmoparman]

I need my ram back this makes me miss it awesome work though Roy! Glad to see you doing the fun stuff to make it more enjoyable and not just run better

[royster]

Thanks RNMM, and good to hear from you. It has indeed been a lot of fun, but a lot of frustration, too. That's what cars are, sort of. But this is a 'project vehicle', and it was intended to be a recreational focus with practical benefits. I still get 25-30 MPH and the truck does serve as a little work horse. The modifications I try to keep simple: there is no need for too many bells-and-whistles...tempting to put gadgets and trinketry everywhere, but it's not necessary. Part of the appeal of these little guys is their simplicity.

I like Geezer's idea of an overhead console for map lights and such. (The GPS makes the map light obsolete for those who indulge in technology. This truck represents a return to manual existance, meaning unfolding a paper map, looking at the road system, and relying on brain cells for navigation). The only real technical upgrade this truck has is the stereo system: the rest remains pretty much as it was manufactured. I had thought of a lot of things I could incorporate into the console, but it ended up being a cup holder and light-switch panel (for extra interior lighting)...and a compass. The project "forced" me to use every provision I built into my garage, and that was an awesome experience. The tools I had amassed came into play, too: the Dremmel tool, clothes iron (for heat-fusing materials), electrical connectors/tools to install them, hot glue gun...all kinds of stuff (toys) I really enjoyed blowing the dust off of and giving a go-round once more in life.

You can go to any autoparts store and buy fake vent-holes (chrome!) and sparkly stick-on statements...gawd, the crap they sell to "customise" vehicles...but it doesn't look good on other vehicles, it won't look good (or serve purpose) on mine. So I hope to represent the average working guy whose "statement" is simply honest attention to detail and serviceability...with a sporty attitude.

The bucket seats opened up a whole bunch of room that was unaccessible when the bench seat was in. The first console let me know what would work, and what was impractical.

By the way, I can easily make paper templates of door panels, center hump contours and the rear top panel if anyone wants to venture into making their own. Just PM me if you're really interested. (I didn't make a template for the rear large panel, but it can be detatched easily and traced if you want one).

[Redneckmoparman]

I think we need some installed photos!

[royster]

Hopefully tomorrow. It came out awesome!

[royster]

I think we need some installed photos!
10863 10864

10865 10866

Armrest
The jury is still out about the material on the headrests: it's just there with saftey pins, for now.
The little box I got at Mal*Wart for $6. I hacked it up and modified it to fit so passenger-access to the seatbelt base was easy. The black device on the board is dash light illumination.
10867 10868 10869

Behind The Seat Storage
I installed some hooks to hold bungie cords. I have a flat Craftsman tool set that has a restraint and cover behind the driver's seat. Note the crank for the spare tire: it is mounted on a typical broom catch. A tire inflator is Velcroed to the carpeting.
10870

[BradMph]

Is that a roll of TP in that last photo? :lmao:

[royster]

Who'd have thunk it?

10875 10876

And now, just today I was at a friend's house...he and a buddy are parting out two cars for destruction derby. I was welcome to any discarded stuff, and I got all kinds of great crap. So the new door panels are already under way.

[royster]

Is that a roll of TP in that last photo? :lmao:

No, they're very absorbant paper towels for cleaning up personal spillage when things get exciting in the cab. "It's the quicker dicker picker-upper".

[royster]

And now, just today I was at a friend's house...he and a buddy are parting out two cars for destruction derby. I was welcome to any discarded stuff, and I got all kinds of great crap. So the new door panels are already under way.

Since I can't FIND the rear bumper I want, I'm going to MAKE one.

[royster]

Since I can't FIND the rear bumper I want, I'm going to MAKE one.

Done. Photos soon.

I really wish I HAD taken pictures of this truck when I first got it...which will be a year ago in September. I had no idea, at the time, that this forum existed, or that there were enthusiasts for these trucks. What a year of learning, discovery, adventure and creativety it's been. And personal growth, too: this truck has pushed me to "do the right thing" instead of minimal repairs and casual maintenance.

With the resources and materials I got from the parted-out vehicles I'll begin phase three of the interior make-over: a more conventional look (the materials are gray 'velvet') and completely new door panels made from the experience this last round taught me. If you haven't delved into upholstery stuff, I can share the things I learned about using a staple gun, heat-fused bonding and pop rivets. As a carpenter, I use a clothes iron for heat-fused edge banding, so the step into materials bonding was easy, and clothes irons are $1 at any yard sale. A hot-glue gun is good, too...for those of us who don't do this work professionally. I also took the time to make sure-footed wiring connections that can be disconnected for servicing, instead of a twist-splice and tape. As with my home-improvement work, it has been done so that anyone can service it without trying to figure what the contraption is or how it was put together.

And I am forever grateful to the experts and amatures alike who helped me along with this project truck. Each member here has their truck for different reasons, though our common bond is an affection for these unique guys that came along some 30 years ago, and refuse to die.

Below: the evolution of my truck interior
10894 10895

I'll get some better photos of the console.

[royster]

Since I can't FIND the rear bumper I want, I'm going to MAKE one.

10899

[royster]

10902 10903

10904 10905

Bumper project
10906 10907

10908 10909

10910 10911

10912

[Redneckmoparman]

hmmm interesting looks appealing in the pic but id like some better lighting of the bumper from back and both corners up high and level with it i wish you had a digital camera even a shitty one i mean my old 2mp cell phone took almost decent photos and you just have to connect a usb cable to download the pics you should look at some garage sales you can usually find a digital camera cheap or cl or goodwill i bet even has them and some are powered by AA batteries like mine but mine is taking a dump cause nothing is built worth poo anymore but my cell phone does the job for now when the handmedowns dont work anymore

[royster]

Actually, I took those views, they just didn't come out well. It IS time for a digital camera...I actually HAVE one, but have never been able to figure out how to down-size the images so they don't take up enormous amounts of disk space on my computer. What options were available weren't small enough to allow posting on internet connections. So I'm in full agreement with you on the camera issue. I was very disappointed that I wasn't able to get a good (lighted) view from the back. I'll get those soon enough.

Meanwhile, it's time for focusing on firewood season, out here in the land of woodstoves. I think we're in for an early winter, damned global warming!

EDIT: I found the camera cord and manual, so I'll work on learning how to use it - I do agree, it's ridiculous to go through the process I do to provide photos.

[geezer101]

My HP Compaq only has a 40Gb hard drive and holds the stupid amount of photos I take with my Canon EOS 350-D. Worse case scenario is you can put your photos onto your PC, transfer them to an online media storage site like photobucket, then delete them from your PC. Or buy an external drive to store all of your media onto, they're pretty reasonably priced now for a trazillion googlebyte drive. End of the day you will end up with far better quality pics that you can delete or edit without handing over cash for something that might turn out to be a dud shot.

[royster]

Thanks, Geeze~meister: I'll be working on all of that. The time has come. (Keep in mind Redneckmoparman had to tell me how to use a voltmeter!) Despite being a website Administrator, I'm still largely computer-illiterate. Techno-phobia? Possibly. I came from the analog age, and it's hard to give up that which was so difficult to learn...same for working on cars: the Valiants and Ramblers are long gone.

>sigh<

Time to grow up a little...again.

Hey geezer: you're almost at 200 posts: when are you gonna put up an avatar?

[geezer101]

Hmm, when I figure out how to? And also when I find a pic that I think works for me. I haven't got an avatar on on any other site either - maybe I'm the guy who has "no need for a label"? :shrug:

[royster]

Sort of a trivial detail...especially since the black hood is temporary...but I painted a thin, gold stripe across the front to provide some definition. I also took off the chrome license plate frames (still on, in this photo) and replaced them with black. This morning I shortened the ladder racks by 4"...makes a huge difference in how they look. Still trying to get my computer to accept digital shots, but for now, regular camera shots will have to do: I'm working on a new roll of film and will get some GOOD shots of the rear bumper.
10917

[royster]

id like some better lighting of the bumper from back and both corners up high and level with it
Here you go:
11001 11002 11003 11004 11005 11006
I had to mount the plates out a little, and also create a plate for the lighting. Note there is an intermittent plastic "gasket" between the bumper and the body, typical of 70's and 80's vehicles. I can still access the spare tire crank, but I'm thinking of modifying that whole contraption into something much easier to access. There's a lot of room under there: it's a real temptation to make tool boxes and storage spaces.

I chopped 4 inches off the height of the ladder racks, and they look much better, more proportional to the truck.
11007 11008 11009

[royster]

Not that anyone here gives a rat's ass, but here are a couple pictures of my garden.

...and my prize tomato, with a few pickings from the morning I snapped these shots.
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BTW, RNMM, a digital camera is on my shopping list. It is quite possible these are the last film-based photos I'll be posting...and quite frankly, I'm glad. Thanks for keeping on me about that: digital is so much clearer.

[BradMph]

Ever try your cell phone for taking pictures? You can send them to an email. Roy, are you using that wood for a crush zone on your bumper or did I miss a photo of some steal placement? Just an idea, maybe a couple old shock absorbers instead. Dumb thing with our trucks I noticed is that almost any bumper put on the truck will ding the body in a minor bump.
That tomato is huge!, do you live by a Nuclear Power Plant by any chance?

[BradMph]

Hmm, when I figure out how to? And also when I find a pic that I think works for me. I haven't got an avatar on on any other site either - maybe I'm the guy who has "no need for a label"? :shrug:

Geezer, they aren't a label for say. They are something that makes forum life a little interesting, plus gives it some color. You can change them and find that right one that fits your liking. Now stop being a stick in the mud and get yourself an avatar so we can label you. :lmao: Find one you like anywhere on the net, let me know and I'll fix it for you.

PS. Just thought of something...as a moderator (so to speak) I can find one and pin it to you, so make your choice. hehehehe!

[royster]

Ever try your cell phone for taking pictures? You can send them to an email.
That tomato is huge!, do you live by a Nuclear Power Plant by any chance?

I neither HAVE nor WANT a cell phone.


do you live by a Nuclear Power Plant by any chance?

:marge: Not only live nearby, but work there, too!

(Kidding) Those are Mortgage Buster tomatoes, rivaling Beefsteak. It was proudly given to friends who made BLT sandwiches with it. I've had two more about that size, the rest have been average...but boy are they delicious. Nothing like home-grown produce and marijuana :bart:

[Redneckmoparman]

Home grown is ALWAYS the best I need to get mom setup for gardening next year..... Bumper looks really good though Roy! Fits the truck quite well!

[royster]

Bumper looks really good though Roy! Fits the truck quite well!

Coming from you, I consider that a valued complement.

The measurement to go around the sides is 65 inches, and the best I could do was some 61, so I couldn't wrap it around. Still, if a state trooper had to push me to the side of the road, the tailgate is likely to survive.

As I learned in the recording studio: anything I did once, I can do better a second time. One song I recorded required 27 tries before I got it without mistakes. So I can make a better bumper, but for now, this one works just fine.

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[royster]

GARAGE UPDATES
The evolution of my garage has been guided by using it, and finding what works for me and the tasks I need to conduct. Below, the kitchenette as it looks today, and the Ram 50 grille has been added to my automobilia artwork on the walls. Some sort of bumper~facade will be added, and the tin foil for headlights begs a different material...maybe wax paper.
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The entry to the garage: you can tell a lot about a person by what they have and how they store it.
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[pennyman1]

use the headlights from the parts truck in the grille for more realistic look...

[royster]

use the headlights from the parts truck in the grille for more realistic look...

That's a cool idea, but space doesn't allow for it. I'd really like to find some plastic lenses I could cut and fit...that might happen. The other consideration is that a local Ram 50 owner needs a good grille, in which case, I'd give it to them.
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Roy's Garage:
Replies: 246
Views: 8,351


Wow, difficult to imagine my thread getting over 8,000 views! I was surprised to see that.

[royster]

One year ago, today, I bought my Ram 50.

It...and this forum...changed my life completely.

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[royster]

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These are two DIGITAL photos I took this afternoon, thanks to the generous offer ragragtimetime made me regarding his old, unused camera. Transferring pictures is awesomely easy.

A HUGE public "thank you" for the Good Will ragragtimetime conducted in this kind jesture.