2nd gen electric fuel pump install

[originalowner]

Took too long to compose the initial post so it *poofed*... Here are the pics and I will fill in the details later...

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[originalowner]

Here are the captions for the photos. The photos are numbered as you would read them on a page-

Photo #1-
Carter P4070 electric fuel pump. Low amperage draw according to the tech rep I spoke to on the phone from Carter. Mounting location is at the bed mount closet to the fuel fill. I fabricated a mounting plate for the pump with sheet steel available from Ace or Town and Country Hardware. NO WELDING NEEDED. The mounting plate is bolted into place with 3 bolts. The bolts go through the bed mount gussets...and then through the mounting plate. The holes are already drilled through the gussets by the truck. One hole requires a bigger washer than the other two...just make sure the diameter is measurably than the biggest hole in the gusset. The is tight quarters. Without an automotive lift, you are doing a lot of work "in the blind". But it's doable with only one jack stand. I can prove it. A lift sure would help though...sure would. ;] The photo is looking forward from the LR wheel well. You can see the factory filter "behind" the pump even though that places the filter ahead of the pump as you are sitting in the driver seat. I'll clip it into place the next time it is on a lift when I am getting work done. But it ain't going anywhere. The way it's plumbed is fuel tank then factory filter then P4070 then fuel line to the engine. Existing factory supply and return lines are used. You are essentially "splicing" the P4070 into the existing lines while using the factory fuel filter. Not hard, but tedious w/o the benefit of a lift. Make sure the fuel is filtered before it enters the pump. That is the primary reason why I chose to do it this way.

Photo #2- This photo viewpoint is laying on the floor looking straight up. The two topmost bolts are 3" long and the bottom one is 4" cut down to approx 3.5". A 4" bolt cannot be snaked through- it is to long. A 3" bolt can be snaked through but it will be too short. Trust me on this...get a 4" boly and cut it down to 3.5". This lower bolt also functions as the mounting for the ground wire for the pump. Use nylon lock nuts so they will not loosen over times. (refer back to photo #1)

Photos #3 and #4- #3 is the heavy duty tie straps I used to fasten the power wire to the frame. #4 is 12 gauge wire inside plastic shielding- available at most any automotive parts store national chain. Mine came from CarQuest. The tie straps were found in the utility room of the house I bought in 2005. The photo is of the label on them. These "Superman Kryptonite" tie straps should be available at an electrical builder supply house. I use them all the time around the house. They are stout. Cable companies use them for example.

Photo #5- Holly 12-804 fuel pressure regulator mounted in place on the LF fender well under the hood. Pennyman is right you don't really need to have one but for info purposes:

Holly 12-803: 4 1/2-9psi
Holly 12-804: 1-4psi

The Mr. Gasket mini gauge reads 2.9 psi after the install of all this. This is why Jim Inglese recommends only the 12-804 for use with Webers. He is the Weber guru that builds intake setups for Cobras with Weber carbs. There is a link to his site in the Facet electric pump? thread where you can see example of his work and great general info for all kinds of Webers. Great info from a great guy. Heck here is the link-

http://www.jiminglese.com/ Check it out...Great reading.

Photo #6- this photo shows how WeberDirect aka EuroPartsDirect gets away with selling junk as "genuine Weber" carbs. What they sold me was cheap counterfeit JUNK as opposed to a genuine Weber carb. The "real" Webers have the Weber logo and "product of Spain" cast right into the carb body. You may be able to pick that out in one of the photos. The WeberDirect JUNK is not tunable and is only about 300CFM whereas the genuine are at least 375CFM. Photo# 14,16,17 shows the two side by side. The get away with it simply because they affix a Weber sticker on the carb on a part of the carb that is made by Weber. I paid 299.95 for that piece of JUNK in 2007. THEY ARE NOT WEBERS BUT A CHEAP COUNTERFEIT. You can also see the Weber sticker on the choke assembly. I got taken back in 2007 by WeberDirect and that is why I will not refer them to the users here.

I'm hungry for breakfast. More captions in the upcoming days. :cheerleadersmileygu

[originalowner]

I ended up with 2 DGEVs because of my "learning curve" of all things Weber-one is on the truck and the other is the one pictured on my work bench. I use it for spare parts and learning the DGEV. Right now I am going through the learning curve on how to tune it for my truck. One thing I did learn is you can change the idle jets (primary and secondary) easy as pie- but that does mean the carb is "tuned" for your application. The 2.6 is a "big four" and I'm sure that comes into play in the tuning. I am also running a 'test pipe' in place of the cat. Other than that the setup is 100% stock. Eventually I will look into getting a header- either a Doug Thorley if I can find one or one of the custom made ones by some users here. Not there yet though. ;) Anywho....

Photo #7-this is a photo of the template I made of cardboard to transfer to the sheet steel. It measures 2" across the top, 5" across the bottom, and 8" down the sides. Use these measurements and you won't have to crawl under there and use a tape measure. ;) Slightly bigger is OK- but no more than 1/16 of an inch or 1/8 MAX. I had mine cut at a local steel fabrication supplier. It was not a retail store- they just do custom steel fabrication. I ask the guy how much do I owe you? and he sez just donate to our coffee fund...(there were only 2 guys up front and in the office) so I shot him 10.00 bucks. I am going to have them cut out a plate to cover the "hole in the head". Not my head...the head in the truck- (removal of the mechanical will yield a hole). :lmao: As an avid coffee drinker, I'll just shoot them boys some more coffee money.:thumbup: I bought a new insulator and gaskets for a mechanical pump for that purpose. The template is 'parked' next to the box the Carter P4070 came in.

Photo #8- The easiest and neatest way to wire the pump is to get a 10 amp 'Add-A-Circuit' from a national auto parts store chain. Use the fuse slot for the horn because it is [I]'switched'. At first I used the slot for the dome light because it was the one of only two 10 amp fuses on the truck- howeva...it is un-switched which means if the door was left ajar by accident the pump would be running. USE THE HORN SLOT. The guy at Carter told me those pumps don't have a big draw- around 6 amps IIRC. An 'Add-A-Circuit' just splits the circuit in two.

Photo #9- This illustrates where the power wire runs through the firewall. I have 2 wires running through the firewall in that area because one is for the power amp for my stereo. No measurements needed- just S.W.A.G it using the photo as a reference.

P.S. How do I edit my own posts??? I want to edit some grammar, punctuation, and spelling errors in the first text post. You can tell I'm quite anal.:grin:

[originalowner]

Photo #10,11- Use the existing supply and return lines. You can see them hooked up to the carb in these photos. The Holly 12-804 has one inlet and two outlets- one houses the pressure gauge and the other goes to the carb inlet. Believe it or not, when I did the DGEC install back in 2007, the instructions from WeberDirect actually said to plug off the return line.:steamingears: I noted this in the the Facet fuel pump thread. My take on that whole sorry episode is that WeberDirect was seriously overstocked on that Chinese/Taiwanese or (wherever i came from) junk. No doubt not having a return line hooked up :wtf: contributed to that run-on...hard starting hot which eventually resulted in a nice puff of black smoke...keeping it on the floor like it was flooded was the only way to get it started when it was really hot outside. The only way I could shut off the motor was to pop the clutch. Even though I had two years of minimal driving it waiting to get on disability it took a serious toll on the clutch itself. I have the parts already bought- a new clutch is the next repair to be done. On top of that the most MPGs with the DGEC I could muster was 15-16 MPG on the highway! This on a 4 cyl 5sp with a 300CFM carburetor! So mad at WeberDirect I could eat sawdust and shit 2X4s. But hey...all the negative PR I am giving them is worth it. In various customer satisfaction meetings over the years I saw that people who are satisfied oftentimes don't tell anybody they just go on living life happy. But a dissatisfied customer will tell at least 10 people how dissatisfied they are and why- which is what I'm doing...not 10 people but 10X10X10. So be it.

Photo #12- service records. They fill a 1" binder. Hey I know this is about a pump install, but I can't resist blowing my own horn about my truck. Can't resist. It is in the shape it's in largely because of how I take care of it. That's why I am so incensed at WeberDirect. Fix these trucks right and they will outlive you.

Photo #13,15- My truck- Ol' Reliable. Bought new as a demo on 2/15/88 with approx 5400 miles. Now with over 348,000 miles. Like the Energizer Bunny it just keeps going with minimal fuss.

Photo #14,16,17- A graphic depiction of the difference between the DGEC and the DGEV. Night and day- the air cleaner on the DGEC will not even fit the DGEV. I had to buy everything new except the installation kit. The photos also show the leftover sheet steel from the 8X18 piece I started with. About half was used to fabricate the pump mounting plate- the other half will be used to make a cover plate for the now defunct mechanical pump.

I realize I was late to this party. The original carb lasted until 2007 and 280,000 miles. If it ain't broke don't fix it. Little was I to know that WeberDirect is more interested in making money than satisfying paying customers. I paid over 300.00 for that 300CFM pile of junk. Arrrrrrggghhh...

I will post my learnings as how to tune it in the near future. As angry as I am at WeberDirect, I am thankful it is done and want to thank the members here especially Pennyman, BradMPH, Fordabishi, Camoit, Acuta73 etc. etc. etc.

This is how it's done on a 2nd Gen. Wish I knew then what I know now. No biggie. We're all here to help.

[deedub30]

What is the fuel pressure you are running? I am about to do the same thing to mine

[originalowner]

What is the fuel pressure you are running? I am about to do the same thing to mine

With the adjustment screw all the way out it runs 2.9psi. How perfect is that? I figured this set-up would work. I told youse guys. LOL. :beavisbutthead:

[Kaos731]

Just so I don't make the same mistake when I pull the trigger...

Weber Direct is NOT Weber Carbs Direct (http://www.webercarbsdirect.com), correct?

[originalowner]

Just so I don't make the same mistake when I pull the trigger...

Weber Direct is NOT Weber Carbs Direct (http://www.webercarbsdirect.com), correct?

The firm that sold me the Solex in 2007 marketed as a genuine Weber is located in Long Island, New York. (Hauppage) They are Weber Carbs Direct.

Go with RedlineWeber (http://www.redlineweber.com/) in Torrence Ca. or Pierce Manifolds (http://http://www.piercemanifolds.com/default.asp), also in Cali.

Both of these firms sell the genuine Webers with the Weber trademark cast into the body of the carb. (And are very helpful when you call them). The jamokes in Hauppage just want your money.

[originalowner]

OK here is an update to this thread.

Weber DGEV 32/36 tuning for 2.6-
Here are the jetting specs for this carb on a 2.6L. Since this carb is sold for many, many different applications for a LOT of makes, your jetting out of the box will likely differ. But I spoke with a guy at Redline Weber, and he told me these were the jets that belong in the carb for my application.

Primary idle-60
Secondary idle-50
Main (primary) 130
Main (secondary) 135
Air Corrector (primary) 170
Air Corrector (secondary) 160
Single pump jet

This is for a bone stock motor.

I mentioned in another thread that these motors are prone to dieseling. They are. The only way to get cure it is to get the idle way down, below factory specs. What threw me initially was the factory setup had an "idle up solenoid" for the A/C along with positive fuel shut off when you turn off the key. No doubt some guys like to play with tools more than I do. I get that. But I'm not about to screw with it anymore for that. I may still try cut-off idle jets, because I have 2. Maybe I'll screw with it some more in that regard if I'm bored one day.

The Carter P4070 lasted only 6 months. I upgraded to an Airtex E8004. It's MUCH quieter and (hopefully) is a more durable pump. I cut apart the fuel filter I had installed above in March '14 but it was not stopped up. So either I got a bad one, or it is just a POS. I know several here run or have run them, but the Airtex cost half again as much, so I have to think it was a "you get what you pay for" deal. The Carter has kind of a Mickey Mouse mounting so...

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Since I had put a lot of thought into the first pump installation, switching over to the Airtex E8004 was pretty much a piece of cake. Just had to drill a few extra holes in the mounting plate.

My thoughts on the electric pump are mixed. You don't HAVE to have one with a Weber IMO, the factory mechanical pulsations through the fuel line may not be bad enough to negatively affect the needle and seat, I don't know. What I DO know is I ran the factory mechanical pump from 2007 until March 2014 and I saw no real difference whatsoever between the two. Getting the mechanical out of the way makes it easier to access the right front mounting nut on the Weber so that is enough reason to make it worthwhile to shit can the mechanical. Use a factory gasket or insulator to outline a block off plate out of sheet steel and make gaskets.

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Happy motoring. ;)

[noahwins]

Happy you posted this. I'm fed up with the grinding noise from the Carter. Did you use a regulator?

[Andy 2]

I used the Carter 4070 when I put the Weber on also. I'm glad to see I'm not the only one who thinks it's a bit loud. Do you think rubber mounts would help. It seems like most of the racket comes from it resonating through the truck box. I made a similar mount that is bolted to the underside of the box frame.

[Rickdees]

I'm running a carter on bushings, it helps but it's still annoying. I also tried to run a holley fuel pressure regulator a friend gave me and had fuel pressure problems thinking it was bad. Bought a new one samething. Took the pump back under warranty thinking it was the fuel pump. Nope, removed the holley fuel pressure regulator. No problem since.
Then, I read Carter has a built in pressure regulator.

[Andy 2]

The Carter 4070 puts out 4-6 psi. I use a Mr. Gasket regulator to lower it to between 2 and 3 psi so as not to overpower the float.
I've been considering these for mounting the pump mount bracket...http://www.essentracomponents.ca/product/VM-83-1/10004459. And maybe a smaller set to mount the bracket I made to the underside of the truck.

[originalowner]

Yes I run a Holley 12-804 regulator. As outlined in the beginning of the thread, it is mounted on the inner fender. (I used the factory supply and return lines also.) The 12-804 is the lower pressure regulator...the allowable pressure is higher on the Holley 12-803. On the 12-804 the pressure is 1-4 psi. The 12-803 is 4.5-9. With the adjustment screw all the way out on the 12-804 the pressure is 2.9. By using this regulator you can also use a Mr. Gasket mini-gauge. Those pictures are above also. That's how I new the Carter was bad...it was lest than 1psi. That Carter is so loud you have to shut the truck off at a drive-thru. It's annoying as shit. My opinion is it's just low priced junk...

[Ramshorn]

Thanks for all the info here! Just ordered my Airtex fuel pump (E8004) last night on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E8004-Electric-Fuel-Pump/dp/B0023QNIEO) for $68!

Weber carb is on the way, piecing together all the other parts to try and get started on the install this weekend.

Cheers!

[originalowner]

Thanks for all the info here! Just ordered my Airtex fuel pump (E8004) last night on amazon (http://www.amazon.com/Airtex-E8004-Electric-Fuel-Pump/dp/B0023QNIEO) for $68!

Weber carb is on the way, piecing together all the other parts to try and get started on the install this weekend.

Cheers!

Good job!

To be honest I was a little surprised to see a price that low on Amazon...I paid $110.00 at CarQuest for one. Install it as it is outlined above and you'll be fine. The Weber DGV 32/36 is essentially "set and forget" but with the advantage of being tunable that the factory carb does not have.

My own feeling (and I could be wrong) is that a fuel pump relay is not really needed as long as the return line is hooked up. The Weber has provisions to hook up inlet to the bowl and outlet to the return line back to the tank. The instructions for the phony Weber DGES said to plug the return line off. :thumbdown: The 2.6 sucks gas as it is, that just made it worse.

You may benefit from slightly smaller jetting with a 2.0. Call Redline Weber in Cali to get the jet numbers for a 2.0

Perhaps someone can chime in on wiring for an oil pressure shut off switch. I haven't gotten around to it yet but it is a recommended safety item.

Good luck!!!

[Ramshorn]

originalowner - The original price on the fuel pump from amazon was $109. I dbl. checked the part number, lets hope it works! Can't wait to get this all installed and hopefully (fingers crossed) get her back on the road. I picked up most of the parts today, waiting on the carb and fuel pump to come in.

[Ramshorn]

ohh yeah - redline sent me an extra set of jets bc I'm in Denver (altitude), so I should be covered.

[Ramshorn]

Quick Question - I went to three different auto parts stores and an Ace hardware to try and locate the fitting needed to hook-up the mr gasket fuel press. gauge to the holley fuel press. reg. and nobody had anything!? I was shocked!! Can you please help me with some info? Photo #5 (above) almost shows this but not quite. Greatly appreciated!

[Andy 2]

What are the two pipe sizes you are trying to join?

[Ramshorn]

What are the two pipe sizes you are trying to join?

The adapter should be 3/8" (male end) into the holley fuel pressure regulator, and leads to 1/8" (female end) for the mr. gasket fuel press. gauge. As I mentioned, pic #5 from original owner above, shows this all assembled if that helps.

Thanks!

[Andy 2]

I think you're looking for one of these http://www.zorocanada.com/g/Pipe%20Bushings%20Brass/00165749/None

[Ramshorn]

I think you're looking for one of these http://www.zorocanada.com/g/Pipe%20Bushings%20Brass/00165749/None

Andy2 - Thank You! :yellow:

[DanRiffel]

What did you use to get power for the fuel pump at the fuse panel?

[Andy 2]

I didn't go into the fuse panel at all. The plug that went to the Mikuni had two 12 volt terminals that came on with the ignition. One was the choke, and the other for the solenoid that leaned out the mixture. I used one of those as my ignition source for the relay and then followed this wiring diagram.13869

[originalowner]

I didn't go into the fuse panel at all. The plug that went to the Mikuni had two 12 volt terminals that came on with the ignition. One was the choke, and the other for the solenoid that leaned out the mixture. I used one of those as my ignition source for the relay and then followed this wiring diagram.13869

I do not come here very often, obviously. I used an "Add-a-Circuit" to the fuse panel. Andy used a power source at the carb. IIRC, I cut off the plug on the wiring to the Mikuni, this forced me to go to the fuse panel. These pumps do not take a lot of amperage, so splitting a circuit to the dome lite works fine. See the instructions above, but either method is satisfactory.

[Andy 2]

My dome light circuit has power all the time, even with the ignition off. It comes on when the doors open or when the lens is slid over to the on position. Would you need to use a switch in the circuit to turn the fuel pump on.