Help! Truck died while driving, starter now just spins...

[haruman]

Was driving my 80 arrow back to my house when I noticed the power start to fade, and then the engine shut off completely.

Was able to coast it into a parking lot. Once there and at a complete stop, back in park, tried to start the truck. No turning over, it sounds like the starter just spins.

Does it sound like the starter is bad?

[geezer101]

Hi haruman, sorry to hear your truck griefed you. Your starter motor could have a bad starter solenoid - but I'd check battery condition first. If the battery you're using has filler caps on it, buy an old school battery hydrometer and test the battery out. Top up the battery to the correct levels while you do that. If it shows that the battery is good, put the battery on charge. Once it's got a full charge, drop it back into the truck and see if it starts. I'd do another voltage check while (if...) the engine is running as this will show if the alternator is pushing good voltage back out into the electrical system (should be around 13.5 volts or better depending on the voltage regulator). Easy stuff to do. Hope you get back on the road soon :thumbup:

[haruman]

Thanks for the tips, will check the battery out... has a brand new alternator, hopefully that's not the issue.

Wife had to tow me home with her CRV. I won't live that down for a while... :shakehead:

[haruman]

Battery is good, and charged. Had the wife crank it while I looked at the cam & pulleys... no turning. Bad starter? You can hear spinning...

On maybe a related / unrelated note... at speeds above 45mph today I noticed a vibration sound coming from the engine, it was unusual. Hmm...

[pennyman1]

take a hammer and using the handle, tap on the solenoid housing, then try starting it again. If the solenoid is sticking, this may free it.

[haruman]

Thanks, I'll try that next.

Any idea why this would kill the truck while I was driving? Weird...

[pennyman1]

that wouldn't kill the truck even if the bendix on the starter was riding the ring gear. Is this a 4/5 spd or an auto? If auto, it could be a misadjusted or failing neutral safety switch on the floor shifter.

[haruman]

It's an auto.

[haruman]

Tried to start in Park, starter whirrs away. Tried in Neutral, starter whirrs away. Tried starting in reverse and drive, starter doesn't whirr.

[pennyman1]

You did say the motor doesn't move, but the starter sounds like it is spinning? the other explanation would be that the flexplate has disconnected from the crank and is no longer able to spin the motor. I have heard of the flexplates breaking where the flexplate bolts to the crank. Can you jack the truck up and safely watch as someone operates the starter - you should be able to see the torque convertor from underneath

[ragragtimetime]

description sounds like faulty starter motor due to grounding within starter; ie - grounded armature, grounded brush holder, grounded field coil (brush to starter casing). this "may have" initiated by a faulty ground strap (verify all grounds are making excellent contact). this in turn "may cause" engine to die from voltage drop since battery positive goes to starter direct (main fusable link takes a separate path) & "may cause" pinion to not fully extend outward from starter. pull the starter & bench test to visually verify pinion gear extends. if anything on starter appears suspect swop it out. best of luck!

[haruman]

Yanked the starter. Pinion does NOT extend. Just ordered a new one off Rockauto, thing is in an outlying warehouse, so probably won't be here until next week. Ack.

[ragragtimetime]

while you are awaiting delivery make sure all grounds are in great shape & use di-electric grease wherever possible...you know check battery ground to cab, frame, engine etc...(i add grounds)...i have a gut feeling this is why the truck died while driving

[geezer101]

^ +1 on that. So many electrical gremlins creep in over time and most of them are due to dirty earth contacts. Hunt down the earth leads in the engine bay, disconnect them and give them a good degrease and clean with steel wool (even wire wheel the earth lead bolts if you can). They might be dirty enough to interfere with the truck starting, charging and running accessories. Had a similar issue with a Hilux - after going through the earth leads it stamped out the electrical problems. Good luck :thumbup:

[lush90]

I know you already ordered one but "next" time you might see if there is a starter/alternator rebuilder in your area. Thealternator on my 3.0 went out a few weeks ago, all parts stores said at least four days, so I called a local rebuilder who tore mine down and had it back the same day. Just something to keep in mind!

[haruman]

Good tips all around. Will clean up the grounds while I wait.

I didn't even think about a local starter rebuilder. Hmm...

[haruman]

Heh. Now that I look, the original ground cable that connects to the frame & then the engine... the connection to the frame is broken. Gonna get replacement cables and clean all the points.

[Jeb]

Clean it up real nice where it grounds. Dirty grounds can be a real B****

[ragragtimetime]

i added a ground cable for <$1.00 @ rockauto promo code 2286565420978579 This discount code expires on August 10, 2014; so don't wait!

[haruman]

Ok, so the new starter came in from Rock Auto... and it looks... different. Here is a pic of both.

Anyone seen or used this one before? 1069810699

[ragragtimetime]

VERY interesting...the new one looks correct!

[royster]

It actually looks like the old one is missing a cap or part on the end. It might be worth taking the transmission inspection plate off to see if this is so. Also, maybe look in the Hayne's manual to see if they have a picture on a typical starter. If that end IS missing a piece, the starter gears could push past the flywheel and not engage. As yours' is a 1st generation, I have no idea if the end lodges in the bell housing or not. But I strongly advise looking for any broken pieces from the old starter.

It looks to me like the new one should align just fine.

[haruman]

Interestingly enough, RockAuto also sells a Bosch starter that looks like my old one:

http://www.urqualitysolutions.com/images/16720N_LANGLE.jpg

[geezer101]

Hmmm. I have never seen a Bosch starter motor fitted to any Mitsubishi engine - ever. Just plain weird...

[pennyman1]

the starter without the nosepiece is from a starquest 2.6 - I have one from a parts conquest I diamantled years ago. same teeth count, just looks weird...

[haruman]

New starter installed, just spins... :shakehead:

[haruman]

My truck's an auto, is it possible this is the manual starter? Is there a difference on the two other than power output?

[pennyman1]

yes - the automatic starter is a gear reduction with a different snout to mate with the flexplate ring gear - take it back and get the right one.

[ragragtimetime]

this link shows both (not a great pic) http://www.group1autoparts.com/auto-parts/1984/dodge/ram-50/sport-trim/2-6l-l4-gas-engine/starter-cat/starter-scat/t0310304-assy the "direct drive type" is installed on the 2.0L with manual transmission.

[haruman]

Ugh. Rockauto told me this one was for the automatic...

[haruman]

Returning the first starter, getting the one that looks like mine.

[haruman]

New starter arrived, looks exactly like the one that was on the truck... however this starter has an extra wire coming off the solenoid... no idea what it is.

[pennyman1]

can you post pics please?

[ragragtimetime]

"extra wire coming off the solenoid" you say..not the "field coil wire" off the "yoke assembly" (portion of the starter motor)?...which would connect to terminal "m" (the large connector, NOT the battery connection).

[geezer101]

I found this on another thread and was wondering is this what you're talking about? - http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showthread.php/747-No-start-Ignition-Switch-or-Solenoid

[haruman]

The white wire. 10809 I know the positive from the batter connects to the post right above it, and the plastic wiring connector up at the brass spade at the top of the pic (partly cut off in the pic)...

Where does the white wire go??? My old one didn't have that.

[haruman]

Ah so looks like that's the R-terminal and I can just ignore it...

[pennyman1]

just be sure to tape it up so it doesn't short out or remove it.

[haruman]

This is looking like a bad flexplate...

New starter installed, new grounds everywhere, new hot battery cable... battery charged up. Starter grinds... if I move the crankshaft manually, starter still grinds, but sounds different, this repeats as I move the crank and try to start again. :( :shakehead: :banghead:

[ragragtimetime]

sure sounds like it.....sh*t a b*tch! probably have to tear it apart to verify warp or (hate to use the word) cracked flexplate.

[camoit]

If you turn the crank about 15 or 20 degree it should grab. There is normally a place it will take a bite and crank. Engines have a tendency to stop in one place between compression strokes.

[haruman]

I've turned it a bunch of different ways. I either get a light grinding noise, or a heavy grinding noise... :shakehead:

Ugh. I've already sunk a bunch into this truck... and now this. Anyone have a source for a flexplate? 1980 Arrow, 2.0, automatic.

[haruman]

Just to be thorough... had my brother come over and give me a hand taking a look at everything. Had him crank it while I checked the voltages, all the power looks good, grounds are good, no weird voltage drops anywhere.

Had him under the truck while I turned the crank by hand, he verified that there is at least 5mm of play in the flexplate as I moved it.

[camoit]

Give these guys a call and see if they can find one. http://www.capitol-clutch.com/

I know a starter does not engage that far only like the first 1/4 of the tooth. If they don't have one the dealer???? IDK.

[haruman]

Any idea how many teeth this flexplate should have? (1980 plymouth, 2.0, automatic)

[camoit]

I have no idea. But there can only be one to fit it from what I can tell.

[haruman]

Looks like 110 teeth, 6 bolts to the crank, 3 bolts to the torque converter. Still need a diameter on the wheel, but waiting for the temps to drop a little bit more before crawling underneath her again.

[85Ram50]

I don't know if this helps but is it possible an engine or tranny mount broke? That might tweak things so that they don't mesh up and run.

[BradMph]

New starter installed, just spins... :shakehead:

Before you go taping up starter wires, read this.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showwiki.php?title=Electrical+System:The+Starter+p lus&redirect=no

I had years of starting problems on my truck. I went through starters like crazy, I had issues with them spinning but not engaging. I had to crank the engine over and over and if it didn't start on the 1st or 2nd try, the engine got flooded and overheated the starter. SO I was pussy footing the truck starting everytime I turned the key or it wouldn't start. The friggin grinding was nuts also, gawd I thought I was grinding the flywheel at times.
First thing in the morning the truck started right up most the time. But if I had to stop and restart the truck, I had to catch the moment just right for it to start and not flood. LOW VOLTAGE STARTING PROBLEM.
It was the most frustrating problem to have and it seemed that it would never get fixed. I took the truck to shops and they couldn't locate the problem as well.
Then during my engine rebuilding I began unwrapping all the old crap wiring I did years ago to clean up the mess and install relays on everything that I added on to the truck. Air horns, stereo amp, driving lights, electric fan, and so on. I installed a 100amp alternator and all to try and fix this starting problem. As I unwrapped the thick harness wire set going to the starter I located a unconnected wire. This was the holy grail to my starting problem. The third wire assured my truck 12 volts at the moment of turning the ignition switch. Anyway it's a long story, but I connect the wire up as I explained in the link above and turn the key to an immediate startup. It was fixed, finally after all this time. It all was because I taped up that extra wire that a Auto parts person said to do when I bought the starter. Big Mistake. He said I didn't need the wire, but when my truck got into extreme weather and worn down a bit, 9 volts was not good enough to start her up. The problem begins.


As I read your posting I can't help but think what I went through and it sure the hell sounds just like your problems.
Read that link here...it explains what to do if you have an automatic or a manual transmission and that pesky extra wire. "The Inhibitor Wire".

[haruman]

Before you go taping up starter wires, read this.

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/showwiki.php?title=Electrical+System:The+Starter+p lus&redirect=no

I had years of starting problems on my truck. I went through starters like crazy, I had issues with them spinning but not engaging. I had to crank the engine over and over and if it didn't start on the 1st or 2nd try, the engine got flooded and overheated the starter. SO I was pussy footing the truck starting everytime I turned the key or it wouldn't start. The friggin grinding was nuts also, gawd I thought I was grinding the flywheel at times.
First thing in the morning the truck started right up most the time. But if I had to stop and restart the truck, I had to catch the moment just right for it to start and not flood. LOW VOLTAGE STARTING PROBLEM.
It was the most frustrating problem to have and it seemed that it would never get fixed. I took the truck to shops and they couldn't locate the problem as well.
Then during my engine rebuilding I began unwrapping all the old crap wiring I did years ago to clean up the mess and install relays on everything that I added on to the truck. Air horns, stereo amp, driving lights, electric fan, and so on. I installed a 100amp alternator and all to try and fix this starting problem. As I unwrapped the thick harness wire set going to the starter I located a unconnected wire. This was the holy grail to my starting problem. The third wire assured my truck 12 volts at the moment of turning the ignition switch. Anyway it's a long story, but I connect the wire up as I explained in the link above and turn the key to an immediate startup. It was fixed, finally after all this time. It all was because I taped up that extra wire that a Auto parts person said to do when I bought the starter. Big Mistake. He said I didn't need the wire, but when my truck got into extreme weather and worn down a bit, 9 volts was not good enough to start her up. The problem begins.


As I read your posting I can't help but think what I went through and it sure the hell sounds just like your problems.
Read that link here...it explains what to do if you have an automatic or a manual transmission and that pesky extra wire. "The Inhibitor Wire".

So, if I understand correctly... if I have the starter with the extra wire, make sure it is hooked up to the OEM R wire. If my starter does NOT have the extra wire, run that diode from the solenoid post (that has the fat wire into the starter) to the OEM R wire.

Sound about right?

[85Ram50]

Here's a video I found a while back that shows how to rebuilt a starter. If nothing else works maybe you can put the guts from the new one into the old one and connect those wires up the way they were. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhOen1rbZk4

[85Ram50]

Couldn't see how to edit my post. when he says "yoot" its spelled Ute and is actually slang for Utility which is what they call trucks.

[haruman]

Took a look under the hood last night, found that wire taped to a bunch of others. Black / yellow.

Didn't have time to mess with it, but I verified it's there. Gonna try to get to it this weekend. :))

[Mandle]

@haruman: let me know if you end up needing that flex plate. One of our parts yards here has a 80 arrow, I can check if it's the 2.0 Auto if that's what you end up needing. I can't imagine shipping would be rediculous from Id to Az just for a flex plate. If it's what ya need I'll go pull it for ya.

[Mandle]

They also have a mostly complete 87 MM I'm trying to swindle them out of :-)

[haruman]

@haruman: let me know if you end up needing that flex plate. One of our parts yards here has a 80 arrow, I can check if it's the 2.0 Auto if that's what you end up needing. I can't imagine shipping would be rediculous from Id to Az just for a flex plate. If it's what ya need I'll go pull it for ya.

If you don't mind, go ahead and check please? I'd buy it from you, even if it is just to have a spare on hand if mine is still good.

Thanks!

[haruman]

Looking closer, the black / yellow wire was on the starter as it should have been. The disconnected black / white wire was dirty, and just looked yellow. :lmao:

In any case, got the three wire starter hooked back up, hooked the black / white wire hooked up to the third wire on the starter. Went to fire it up... now it just grinds more vigorously. So def more power. Just not mating with the flexplate... :shakehead:

*sigh*

[haruman]

11838

[BradMph]

1184011839


Here is rockAuto version of the starter


That's starter you have looks like a direct drive one to one starter

Should have 8 teeth also. I'm almost starting to think the starter is turning the wrong way possibly. Grinding like you say it does.

[haruman]

Hmm. Not sure why that's like that.

I had got this one from RockAuto, didn't work at all, no touching the flexplate, just spinning:

11841

[85Ram50]

It's possible you have been given the wrong starter. I have one I picked up that is supposed to be for my rig but when it didn't work I laid it next to the existing and it was shorter. The throw of the shaft was less and well it was still designated for my rig. I ended up buying a rebuilt and it didn't occur to me until much later that I could have put the newer guts from the shorter starter into it and just used my existing shaft.

[haruman]

Well there is someone here local who rebuilds starters I think. I could always take the one that came off the truck to them see if they can rebuild it.

[85Ram50]

Haruman any joy yet?

[claych]

Haruman any joy yet?

yuppers 85Ram50.

Inquiring Minds Want to Know.

[haruman]

Nope, no joy yet. I'm gonna carry that starter down to the rebuilders tomorrow, hopefully that'll do it.

[haruman]

Finally got off my butt and carried that thing down to the rebuilders, should get it tomorrow.

[camoit]

Be sure to ask them about the difference between the different noising and how the throw can affect things. You might be surprised what they tell you.

[haruman]

Man I hope this works, won't have a chance to test it until this weekend, it's gonna drive me nuts until I get it in there...

[haruman]

Just got a call from the shop, starter is rebuilt & ready. $89. Ouch! :shakehead:

Well if it works it'll be worth it.

[haruman]

At least it looks pretty13786

[haruman]

Well, put the rebuilt starter on. Just grinds away as well. Turned the crank maybe 90 degrees, it misses the flexplate completely. Turn it some more, it hits the flexplate again. Gotta be that flexplate... and of course I can't seem to find one anywhere...

[camoit]

Yep that sound like the flex plate. If there is an inspection plate I would look in there. I know there out there I have seen people get them.
Just a quick google came up with a couple of hopeful items. Alwasy check fit and tooth count.

Search terms used: 1980 2.0l ram-d50 flexplate


http://www.amazon.com/Flexplate-1979-1980-Dodge-Ram/dp/B000JODEDC

[haruman]

Well, put the rebuilt starter on. Just grinds away as well. Turned the crank maybe 90 degrees, it misses the flexplate completely. Turn it some more, it hits the flexplate again. Gotta be that flexplate... and of course I can't seem to find one anywhere...

Yeah, that's not the right part, if you check the description it says 8 bolt crank. Mine is 6 bolt.

[camoit]

Have you tried a Mitsu dealer?

[haruman]

Have you tried a Mitsu dealer?

No. Would they have something like that?

[ragragtimetime]

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=4581597&ukey_assembly=648646

[haruman]

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/showAssembly.aspx?ukey_product=4581597&ukey_assembly=648646

Ooh. That looks like that's it! 13929 (Old pic, last year while the tranny was getting rebuilt)

[haruman]

Well, I ordered it. Online reviews for that company are kinda sketchy so I used PayPal in case I have any problems...

[haruman]

And, with no action from me, they just refunded my money. I guess they didn't have the part after all. Back to the drawing board...

[haruman]

Bout ready to give up... :shakehead:

[ragragtimetime]

http://www.finditparts.com/products/3296091/chrysler-md952132

[haruman]

Well, I have the flexplate now. :)

Anyone know the size of the bolts I need for the flaxplate to the crankshaft?

[camoit]

What happened to the ones that came out?

[ragragtimetime]

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/BOLT--BOLT--Crankshaft-Auto-Trans-Drive-Plate-Exc-Dual-OHd-Cam--BOLT--Crankshaft-AutoTrans-Drive-Plate-SOHC--BOLT--Drive-Plate--BOLT--Drive-Plate-wAut/4614310/MD952233.html

[ragragtimetime]

if you don't have any luck let me know how many you need (but you have come this far...try to obtain factory new) & I recommend something like:

~http://www.loctiteproducts.com/p/t_lkr_red/overview/Loctite-Threadlocker-Red-271.htm

hopefully soon you will post a pic of her back on the road:thumbup:

[haruman]

What happened to the ones that came out?

One is missing

[haruman]

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/BOLT--BOLT--Crankshaft-Auto-Trans-Drive-Plate-Exc-Dual-OHd-Cam--BOLT--Crankshaft-AutoTrans-Drive-Plate-SOHC--BOLT--Drive-Plate--BOLT--Drive-Plate-wAut/4614310/MD952233.html


Thanks, got 6!

[haruman]

http://www.factorychryslerparts.com/products/BOLT--BOLT--Crankshaft-Auto-Trans-Drive-Plate-Exc-Dual-OHd-Cam--BOLT--Crankshaft-AutoTrans-Drive-Plate-SOHC--BOLT--Drive-Plate--BOLT--Drive-Plate-wAut/4614310/MD952233.html


Man I hope so too. HOA just sent me a letter complaining about the inoperable vehicle in my driveway...

[tink]

Man I hope so too. HOA just sent me a letter complaining about the inoperable vehicle in my driveway...

HOA may have *special* rules other than city/county/state code but either way, FYI:

on http://www.gilbertaz.gov/departments/development-services/plan-review-inspection/inspection-code-compliance/faq-municipal-code-land-development-code

2. There is a junk car in the neighbor's yard. What can be done about it?

See the Land Development Code (http://www.gilbertaz.gov/departments/development-services/planning-development/land-development-code) section 4.5014, C

Inoperable vehicles must be stored in a fenced area, a fully enclosed building, or at a business engaged in Vehicle Services or Motor Vehicle Sales and Leasing.

Note: a fenced area may be a person’s backyard and the fence does not necessarily have to be non-see through. For example, a ranch-style fence is sufficient and vehicles may still be seen through this type of fence even though they are legally stored

Inoperable vehicles are those which are incapable of being legally driven on a street.


on http://www.gilbertaz.gov/departments/development-services/plan-review-inspection/inspection-code-compliance/code-compliance/code-faq

(http://www.gilbertaz.gov/departments/development-services/plan-review-inspection/inspection-code-compliance/code-compliance/code-faq)
Please note that by their very nature, most of these FAQs are brief, or carry a shortened version of the actual code section that covers any specific question. You are encouraged to read the actual section available on-line in the Code Compliance, Ordinances & Backflow Prevention page to obtain the full code.
1. Once I have reported a suspected violation, what is the procedure Code Compliance will follow to investigate?




A case will be opened in the Code Compliance database by address and assigned to a Code Compliance Officer responsible for a certain geographical area.


The officer will inspect the property and determine if a violation has been committed.


If the violation is confirmed, the officer will either leave a notice at the property (door hanger) or send a letter to the responsible party.


The first letter generally gives the responsible party 14 days to comply.


At the end of the 14-day period, re-inspection takes place. If the violation has been corrected the case is closed. If the violation is not abated, a second notice is sent.


The second notice usually gives an additional 10 days to comply.


If at the end of the 10 day period the violation has not been abated, a third notice is sent via certified mail giving an additional 7 days to comply. The notice states that a civil citation may be issued if the violation is not corrected. If a citation is issued, the responsible party may elect to pay the fine or request a hearing if they believe the citation is unfair.



Each violation is treated on a case-by-case basis, but the above procedure is a good guideline to how the Code Compliance Dept operates.



----------------------
That being said, I've read the local to-me rules about what's considered a "junk" vehicle - and there was a $ value threshold set, forget what it was, $500 or $1500 or $2500. Inoperable vehicles aren't necessarily the same as "junk" vehicle (important to note).

THERE IS ALSO (hip hip hooray) an option for if a person is restoring a vehicle, which of course is off & on again operable or even off & on again considered junk, to jump through even more red tape & submit papers that show a PLAN with a TIMELINE which must show progress either expected or realized for each 30-day period. (yeah, cringe at the BS).

Sorry I don't have a link to those handy at the moment & would probably be different in your state/county/city AND depend on if the HOA supercedes the codes set, too.

It's so freakin' ridiculous I finally just put up a folding driveway gate on wheels across my 12' driveway to keep "that one nosey neighbor" off my case & technically (and legally) avoid breaking rules/codes/ordinances, etc.) without having an actual garage. Now I can just fold the gate open to pull in the truck to work on it, close the gate & have peace & quite :)

I can post some pics of the folding driveway gate, done for under $100, not great but functional & will invest cash for the "right way" to do the finishing touches later on. It was a quick job because the neighborhood snoop/complainer was getting way too ... umm ... bitchy & driving/walking by up to 5x per day. At least for now it looks good enough from the street side to keep me out of trouble.

Best of luck with your truck!!! And your HOA, too :(

[geezer101]

Grrr. They line up to bitch about 'that' car on the driveway - but then they knock on your door asking you if you know anything about cars when their car breaks down. A friend of mine had to set up a temporary lease as he was working away from home. His BMW needed brakes done so he had it apart over the weekend and the property owner whined about it. 2 weeks later - he's knocking on the door asking my buddy if he knows how to fix cars. "Nope" - "...but you were working on your car here not long ago?" His response was - "Just because I had my car in pieces doesn't mean I know what I'm doing..." Under normal circumstances he would've offered to help out but seeming HO was an asshole...

[haruman]

Well, progress.

Got it towed over to my brother's house in Phoenix, he has a nice shop behind his house.

Got it up on jack stands, drained the transmission oil, exhaust taken off, driveshaft dropped. Going to have to order a new center support bearing, old one is trashed big time.

Can see the flex plate now from under the truck, it is visibly cracked and warped.

[geezer101]

Good to hear you managed to find a hide out for your truck while it's gets some TLC. Hope your bros place isn't too far away.

[haruman]

Good to hear you managed to find a hide out for your truck while it's gets some TLC. Hope your bros place isn't too far away.

Not too bad, only about 30 minutes drive from my house.

[haruman]

Assuming the flex plate replacement works fine, will need the following parts as well:

Windshield (got a big crack from top to bottom)
Front Bumper
Door window seals (the ones the windows go through as you roll them down)

[geezer101]

Window scraper rubbers from something like a Ford Courier will work when you cut them down - and as an added bonus they have plastic retaining clips! The metal ones go missing all the time and they can promote rust in the top edges of the doors. The plastic ones fit perfectly and are easy to find.

[haruman]

Window scraper rubbers from something like a Ford Courier will work when you cut them down - and as an added bonus they have plastic retaining clips! The metal ones go missing all the time and they can promote rust in the top edges of the doors. The plastic ones fit perfectly and are easy to find.

Good tip. Something like this?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/MAZDA-MAGNUM-BRAVO-B2000-B2200-B2600-Ford-Courier-WINDOW-GLASS-SEAL-WEATHERSTRIP-/160889449284?hash=item2575c22b44:g:GU4AAOSwqv9V5wD 0&vxp=mtr

[geezer101]

Good thing about that listing is they have added the actual length of the seals. You won't need to cut them down and they are pretty much the ones I pulled from the scrapyard. I've got the front quarter glass windows - thus the 'cut them down to fit' comment. I'm not sure if the inner ones will be right but I have a suspicion that the vehicle manufacturers will use a universal moulding and cut them down to length.

[haruman]

Any helpful tips on changing that center bearing assembly out? I know I need some gear pullers...

[pennyman1]

soak it with penetrating oil before you try to take it apart -a vice to hold it helps too.

[haruman]

Some pics.

Bad center bearing and new one.

16055

Also, crack in the flexplate:

16056

[haruman]

How's this for messed up? Got the first torque converter bold out, rotate the crank around to get the the second and what do I see? Holy shit, that's a flex plate to crankshaft bolt loose in there... along with a big ass hole in the flexplate... :(

[geezer101]

Well that's a new one. Somebody screwed up badly and it came back to wreak revenge on the flex plate. This was looking to go auto destruct sometime very soon.

[haruman]

Well that's a new one. Somebody screwed up badly and it came back to wreak revenge on the flex plate. This was looking to go auto destruct sometime very soon.

Transmission shop that installed my rebuilt tranny and new torque converter...

[haruman]

Anyone know where to buy the flex plate to torque converter bolts? Need 3.

[geezer101]

Transmission shop that installed my rebuilt tranny and new torque converter...

...a shop did that. I know what I'd be doing - :cussingblack:

[tink]

...a shop did that. I know what I'd be doing - :cussingblack:
^this.

I feel for ya, but have no advice about flexplates, haven't got in to mine yet though may soon. At least you know this go round it'll be done right since you're doing it yourself. Jeez. Would love to know where you found a new flexplate, I'd like an extra, too. Called Baxter's auto parts here & they didn't even have one listed.

When extra bolts were needed here I got sent to http://vancouverbolt.com (local) surely there's a place like that near you, bolt & fastener supply place. Take a good one in & tell them you need 3, same size hardness, threadcount & what it's for & they can hook you up.

[tink]

Maybe these match yours: http://www.rockauto.com/en/moreinfo.php?pk=614603&jsn=587
hope that helps, found at rockauto has part # to buy elsewhere also

[haruman]

So. The saga continues. Finally got the transmission off after we realized we had missed one bolt up at the very top. Duh.

Damage from the loose bolt to torque converter. Surface damage only? Or worse. No idea...
16523

Here you can see that another bolt was starting to work its way loose:
16524

Left - bolt that was coming loose. Right - bolt that was in between the flex plate and torque converter. Notice the threads on each
16525

Finally got the flex plate off... wow.
16526

Just wow...
16527

Close up of some of the damage
16528

Back sides
16529

End of the crankshaft. Notice the bolt stuck in the one? That's the leftovers of the bolt that was loose in between the flex and the torque converter. Gah.
16530

Spacer damage
16531

Closeup of back spacer
16532

Closeup of front spacer
16533

[haruman]

So now the next challenge will be:

1) Getting the snapped off bolt out of the crank
2) The two bolts that worked loose have bad threads inside the crank... retap?

[geezer101]

Oh that is nasty right there. Those are hardened bolts so I hope it hasn't messed up the threads badly. I'd try retapping the threads and hope for the best - or you're up for a new crank :shakehead:

[haruman]

I was thinking on the ones with the bad threads using a thread repair kit, the helicoil type.

[haruman]

I was thinking on the ones with the bad threads using a thread repair kit, the helicoil type.

Any thoughts on this? Good idea? Bad idea?

[tink]

Any thoughts on this? Good idea? Bad idea?

Thoughts: search around forums / google for "helicoil fail" (with or w/out quotes) and see what comes up, like comments here: http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/helicoil-failure-90103 (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/helicoil-failure-90103/)/ (http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general-archive/helicoil-failure-90103/) for example.

Or Youtube vids for helicoil fail. Consider the source, if someone says "I've never seen a helicoil fail", eh means little if they've only been back in to a few places where helicoils were used in the same type of situation you're planning. Think old metal, hard vs. softer, moving parts, torque, stress, sheer, heat/cooling differences, etc.

Whatever reasons for failure where others have done it, well, there's your sign to not do it how they did ;) Thinking find out "how to NOT do it" or "WHERE to NOT use helicoils" vs. "How to".

^ those are my thoughts. Don't know why not, would call helicoil if possible & ask. Even if they can't tell you, they'll ask you questions about the application you're planning & give you a different angle to think about maybe.

[BradMph]

Wow!, What was the name of the stuff you were smokin when you put it back together? Gonga! My gawd that looks gnarly from the photos and must of made some hell of a noise before it stopped. Gotta think how much torque was applied to that flywheel to create a tear sideways on something like that. Incredible, wonder what hidden damage could of occurred on a hit with something so violent as that.

Well, replace the broken parts, flywheel must be an exact match since they balance them things and I'm not sure if they balance to crank essembly or not. Using coil for threading should be fine since there are 5 other bolts to help. Sure hope you can torque to specs on the coil hole though. If not maybe a tiny lock tight if required to ensure it doesn't back out, which probably won't happen, IF YOU TIGHTEN IT!, lol.

If coil doesn't work, you'll need to retap and use a larger bolt which will throw balance off a small amount.

Keep us informed and let us know if you have any further questions.



If you've seen a flywheel explosion it was probably not as violent or destructive as the one that occurred in San Diego one day. An 11,000 pound, 7 foot in diameter flywheel rotating at 6000 RPM exploded in the building of a Company ripping through the roof and injuring several employees of,(and get this), "Quantum Energy Storage".
Cal OSHA fined them $58,000 in addition to other infractions, failing to use a protective flywheel shield.
Obviously they failed the Sfi Tech inspection.
16553

[geezer101]

I was of the same opinion on using a helicoil insert on such a highly stressed component like a crank. Problem is that there has already been one bad install on the flex plate end of the crank so it'll be difficult to gauge what effect it will have trying a repair like this.
The output end of a crank shaft is by far the most stressed point in a drive line and, as you can see, if you get assembling it wrong it will do some serious damage (hopefully it hasn't screwed up a seal or bearing in your transmission).

...and there's a reason why scatter guards are fitted to high revving street cars that get some strip time - so you don't get both of your feet cut off if your flywheel fails :shock:

[haruman]

Wow!, What was the name of the stuff you were smokin when you put it back together?

So, I've never touched this part of the truck before... had a rebuilt transmission put on by a transmission shop. Wasn't me. Truck died almost two years ago, took me over a year to find a "new" flexplate for the damn thing. The rusty flexplate is the replacement, btw.

[BradMph]

Ohhh, sorry...misunderstood your post. Every year I get older I loose a little more brain cells. :shrug: I think I have a few more though.

[haruman]

Well, finally some success. Got the broken bolt out:

17156

Got the crank threads cleaned up, put the new flexplate and spacers on (and I used red loctite on the bolts).

Next up, swap the torque converter with the new one and start putting everything back together!

[geezer101]

Good to hear you beat it haruman. One stupid bolt...

[haruman]

Just dropped the driveshaft off at Phoenix Rack and Axle, they're gonna put the new carrier bearing on for me. Didn't feel like messing with it, they'll have it done in like 20 minutes.

[haruman]

Annnnnd just picked it up. New bearing installed. Easy. :))

[geezer101]

So are you close to being on the road or is this a done deal?

[haruman]

So are you close to being on the road or is this a done deal?

Close. With it over at my brother's house don't get to work on it as often as I like...

Now, all the parts are in place, it's just a matter of swapping the torque converter, hooking the tranny back up, exhaust, starter, and driveshaft.

[haruman]

Update:


Worked on the truck this morning, got the old torque converter out, new torque converter in, transmission attached to engine, cross member attached, starter attached, parking brake attached. Still have to bolt torque converter to flex plate, install drive shaft, attach exhaust, attach kick down linkage.

:))

[haruman]

17223

Got everything buttoned up this morning.

Here she is next to my DD, moved under her own power for the first time in just over 2 years!

17224

[BradMph]

Congrats!!! :)

[geezer101]

:clap: Mission accomplished (and not in a George Dubya way either)

[haruman]

Now I just have to get insurance back on it, get emissions, and register it. :))

[haruman]

Drover her home Sunday. Got insurance on it, just have emissions left to do and all's right in the world... :)

17359

[85Ram50]

Congratulations.