alternative engines - how to make it work?

[huff]

After the last thread where people were talking about a group buy of hyundai versions of the 4d56 (the D4BH), I looked up the hyundai website, and saw this interesting motor:

http://www.hyundaiengine.com/auto_diesel/03_a2.5.html

The A-2.5, which seems to have slightly smaller physical dimensions, but a 40% increase in power over the 4d56.
(HP: 138hp for the A-2.5 vs 98hp for the 4d56, Torque: 253 vs 166 ft-lbs for the 4d56)

(for comparison, the D4BH page is here: http://www.hyundaiengine.com/auto_diesel/06_d4bh.html )

Now, I've always been a 'keep it stock' kind of guy, but I know there are more intrepid souls on this board... So my question is for those people: what sorts of issues will I have to deal with when trying to put a motor from a different manufacturer into a vehicle?

I imagine the motor mounts will be different - how does one fix that?
Most likely the tranny won't fit right - how do people tackle that?
The specs on this seemed to say something about an ECU - how does one incorporate that into a mid-80's vehicle?
Will I have to seriously consider whether the drive train can handle the extra power?



huff

[huff]

PS: looks like this engine is also called the D4CB, and was found in the Kia Sorento, and if I am understanding the acronyms that I am finding on the internet correctly, it might be a Common Rail Direct Injection, Variable Geometry Turbo Charged possibly with an intercooler.

those are all things I would like on my truck.

[huff]

ugh, why is my response in dark grey text on top of darker grey background? could a mod please fix it for me?


Thanks.


Fixed color on previous post.

[geezer101]

I would say the first hurdle will be bolting the engine up to a suitable transmission if you choose not to use the complete Hyundai drivetrain. Engine mounts would be a simpler deal with this diesel engine as it is already configured for RWD - it also has the added bonus of being the same exhaust and intake configuration of the MM's engine. There should be adequate clearance to drop the whole deal into the MM's chassis without issues (only things you will need to factor in will be the output from the gearbox and maybe a custom trans support).

[pennyman1]

keep in mind that the hyundai diesels are usually mitsu diesel designs licensed to hyundai. For some reason, mitsu has seemed to farm most of their diesel motors out to hyundai / kia - may be because they own 20 - 40% interest in them. the real clue to seeing if it will fit a 4d55/56 tranny is to get the specs of the bell housing bolt pattern spacing lower span to see if it matches - that will answer if you need to swap trannies or not. the motor mounts may also fit if its a mitsu design.

[huff]

Thanks, you two.

So, since I have a 4wd MM, I am avoiding thinking about replacing the drivetrain... which leads to figuring if I can get the bell housing to fit.

So is there a good source for finding what the mounting bolt pattern is? And what the spline connection is like?

Or let's say that the bell housing isn't quite right. Does anyone ever do anything like weld a panel to the back of the block and then drill holes to match the bell housing? Do they tend to have good results?


On the subject of the splined connection to the transmission: is this likely to fit simply due to both companies being from asia? Or does each manufacturer tend to have their own designs and standards?

Perhaps at the very least I could jerry-rig it by attaching the 4d55 flywheel to the back of the hyundai engine. I'm starting to like this idea...

[pennyman1]

If the flywheel fits to the Hyundai motor, then you could run the clutch setup to match the tranny, as long as the flywheel is the same distance from the block. A wide block motor lower bolt spacing is 13.25" center to center, auto is 12.5 c to c. only other hiccup is if the starter is on the opposte side of the 4d55/56. Then fuel delivery upgrades to support the new motor.

[noahwins]

Interesting. Looks like fueling is computer controlled in that engine so you'd need it and all of the associated wiring and likely a new fuel tank.

From what I read, with modifications to the pump, more intercooling, a larger turbo and alcohol/water injection, you should be able to get those power numbers without too much difficulty out of a 4D56 while keeping it all mechanical and simple.

I think the 4D56 is so inexpensive and reliable because the design hasn't changed very much except with slight redesign of the head for 30 years. Parts of available. And it's literally a bolt-in affair into one of our trucks.

Might not be the case with the newer engine.

[huff]

Ah, that's interesting about the fuel tank - I'm not eager to replace everything on the truck with stuff from a Sorento... if that was the case, I would probably be better off trying to find a Sorento in the first place. So maybe it is back to the drawing board...

I'm unfamiliar with alcohol/water injection - Is this to cool down the cylinder during the exhaust phase or something? Are there bolt-on systems to do this?


For me, I've been fighting with my truck for about 5 years or so. It was dead when I bought it, and I feel like I keep bringing it back to life only to have a new system fail. (Turbo, IP, Alternator, Radiator, etc.... they've all been replaced or overhauled) Every time I take it out on a major trip, something goes wrong. Most recently the crankshaft cracked, which seems like a real fluke. I've already rebuilt this thing twice, so I'm not relishing the thought of doing it again. Especially when I don't think it's an especially powerful truck. In order to keep my EGTs in a safe zone, I can't seem to go uphill with a loaded truck and go any faster than 50 mph. So this water/alcohol injection sounds intriguing to me..... Do you have a link to more info?



Thanks,

huff.

[geezer101]

Water/alcohol injection has a number of advantages. It cleans out the combustion chamber and keeps it clean, and also helps to cool the incoming air/fuel charge allowing for more aggressive engine tuning at is staving off detonation.

[noahwins]

It's also very inexpensive to build a simple static spray/no spray system out of Home Depot parts. There is a ton of information about DIY AWI online.

[Merrill]

I don't have your direct answers, but I have years of Mitsu/Hyundai hybrid engines. Simply put, they are the same engine with subtle differences (like bolt holes and patterns). The reason is the same as mentioned earlier - they're basically all Mitsu's.

I'm also an engineer/fabricator/welder/machinist/car builer. That being said, virtually any engine can be stuffed into virtually any chassis. It's not that difficult to do in most cases. You're probably not going to find the exact pattern of that engine. However, if you just "pull the trigger" and buy it, you can pretty much be assured it will go in easily. It might not be budget friendly, but it can be done.