Judging interest for group buy 4D56T (Hyundai D4BF)

[plh]

Testing the waters for a potential group buy. As some of you know I travel extensively for work in Asia. Primarily: Japan, So Korea, China (lived there a few years back) Taiwan and Thailand. I have some very good connections in So. Korea and he is willing to help with the logistics of a order for some engines. Personally I am looking at 1, however this is way lower than the minimum order quantity. These will be coming directly from Hyundai and are the D4BF 2.5L diesel. Replacement for the Mitsubishi 4D56T. Non intercooled, They will include starter, alternator, flywheel and clutch. All brand new. Timing will be arrival in USA April/May 2015.

I'm trying to get an idea if there is any interest, and therefore if I should continue to pursue this idea.

Rough cost $4k each landed in USA.

[plh]

Received shipping quote today, Looks like they will be slightly under $3800 each. Still confirming if there will be import tax or duties, should know by the end of the week and then will have a final cost. Need to have 4 or more engines committed to get the ball rolling.

[noahwins]

These include the turbo and fuel pump, right?

Does shipped mean delivered to an address or picked up at a depot or port?

[plh]

These include the turbo and fuel pump, right?

Does shipped mean delivered to an address or picked up at a depot or port?

Yes Turbo and injection pump is included. I'll get a complete list together shortly.

Shipped means that the entire group gets to Milwaukee, WI. They can either be picked up here, or I can arrange shipment, or purchaser can arrange shipment to final destination.

[huff]

Did this thing ever happen?

[plh]

nope. too little interest

[huff]

Interesting. I thought there would have been enough. I sent you a PM.

[plh]

replied

[noahwins]

Is this being resurrected for the fifth time?

[huff]

Well, plh mentioned that there was very little interest, so I wrote to him to get some details. I thought it so strange, since there where quite a few people who piped in on your post.
(i.e.: mighty spx, buicken, thillskier, coyotefiveoh, Jon_L (specifically looking for a 3k price), a914622 (specifically looking for $3k), and minnisp).

Noahwins, in your post you mentioned getting 3 different quotes, but you never published what the quotes were. Would you mind digging up those numbers for us please?
Plh, you gave us a quote of $3800, but mentioned there might be additional duties and fees - were you ever able to get a final total? Also, if we can get enough commitments this time around, can the deal be resurrected?

Frankly, I think $3000 is a pipe dream. I tend to trust Mike Warme when it comes to pricing on these things, and he was pretty close to the nose: estimating a $4k price. Spencer, you threw out a $3k figure as the "magic number"; was that how much you ended up paying for yours? Or was it more of a comment on how difficult it is to put together a group buy?


Anyhow, if we can resurrect it, I'm in for $4000.

[noahwins]

I got quotes for $4500 each shipped, then $4200 and $4100 without shipping. I also heard as good as $3800 shipping from someone else (can't remember who) who was calling around. The quotes I got were without haggling so the price could go down. Also the Korean won is much weaker than it was back then. I agree that Mike knows the market the best. $4000 sounds about right.

I think it's going to take someone putting up $16,000 for the minimum order of 4 and then selling the other 3 themselves for people to actually buy.

[huff]

I think plh mentioned the minimum order for him was 6, actually. So counting him, you, and myself, we need 3 more. (That's assuming he is still interested.)

[buicken]

i was interested, but had mine rebuilt . came out to 3100 wirh a pump rebuild, but, i did some things myself. the turbo blew 6 months later, that cost me another 500 bucks.

[huff]

did you get a new turbo or rebuild your old one? I've been wondering if one of the tf035 VGT style turbos found on the later model 4d56 would be compatible (same type of actuation?) and if it would provide any significant performance gain.


If I rebuild my 4d55, I'm going to need a new crankshaft.

[buicken]

i had mine rebuilt. it was the cheaper option. it is a non waste gate oil cooled turbo. the later 4d56 turbos are watercooled , you will need a new waterpump, some fitting lines to the block, and a little exhuast work.

[thillskier]

I'd be interested still. Maybe PM others, if like me, the got busy and haven't been back on here to show interest (or not) still...

[noahwins]

I will make this happen on day, one way or another.

[donvier]

Likely a dumb question, but how bad is the swap for an 85 4x4? I maybe interested if its something I can tackle...

[noahwins]

I think you have to use a different oil pan and maybe one or two other things. But it fits any wideblock transmission and the engine mounts. No mods needed.

[donvier]

Alright, I need to get it back on the road first, make sure I've got the non-engine issues worked out. I'll keep an eye on this thread though. I saw you posted on some other sites, how many people do you have in the game right now?

[huff]

Alright, I need to get it back on the road first, make sure I've got the non-engine issues worked out. I'll keep an eye on this thread though. I saw you posted on some other sites, how many people do you have in the game right now?

roll call?

I'm in.

[noahwins]

One thing I learned is no one is "in" until they post pictures of a newspaper with the date showing with $4000 in $100 bills spread out on it and there's video of them depositing the cash into your account at the bank.

Again, I am skeptical this will ever happen unless one person buys a complete shipment and sells them piecemeal on eBay or here and is willing to wait a year or two for them to all sell.

[huff]

lol. I wonder how much markup one could charge if they did that? 500 maybe?

[noahwins]

Maybe, depending on what kind of deal for shipping you could get to get them to your door. $4500 is about the most people will spend. That's a little more than 10% profit. And eBay takes a 10% cut if you sell them there. My theory is you'd have to be willing to sit on them for a year or two, or ,aybe even longer. These are the biggest ticket items available for a very, very small niche in a weak economy. They're worth more than most trucks. You have a handful of people at most who a) have the need for one and b) have the money for one.

[thillskier]

OK I have this offer.I checked the guy and company out, and they are legit. This was w/o haggling and or a gb type situation, just me asking and him quoting. I followed up with an ask re used engines as well, with asking for a description of the used engine and its condition, miles traveled, etc. ALso asked for the included accessories with the new engine.As soon as he emails me back, I'll post it up on here. May start a new thread if this one seems "dead", since I AM going to buy me one, at least.
Apparently the shipping is the same almost for one (on a pallet or up to 4 on a pallet)
He said
" SHANE ARNOLD To 'thillskier@yahoo.com'





Today at 6:01 PM

HI Tommy,

I can supply these engines direct to you. Cost you would be looking at AUD $4445 per unit plus freight. I will need to check on the freight charge, depending on how you want them sent. Ie air or sea freight. Would also need to know quantities.


Thanks

Shane Arnold

As soon as I get the remaining info, I'llmpost it up.

Also, I AM NOT GOING TO BUY BUT ONE!!! for myself!
IF anyone else wants one (and share shipping) I have it set up for them to (LIKE MY PURCHASE) paypal (or whatever your comfortable doing on international business). PM or post up for details IF you want one or are interested..
Tommy Hill
pM for my info and phone #, if interested.

[na3s]

I'm potentially interested, I'm about 20 miles south of the WA/Canadian border and with the exchange rate as favorable as it sis right now I've quotes from several importers near and around Vancouver for brand new Hyunday D4BF crate motors imported into the Us for about $4,500.

Thrillskier, I'd be interested in reaching out to your supplier to see what he can offer. I won't be ready to pull the trigger for another month or two so your Sept 30th deadline wont work for me.

Are you willing to post 'Shane Arnold's' contact info for the rest of us?

Thanks

[noahwins]

Hyunday D4BF crate motors imported into the Us for about $4,500

That sounds very steep for the inferior non-intercooled version with the US dollar at nearly historic highs...

[huff]

Does Hyundai even make an intercooled version? Either way, it's not too hard to add one after the fact, is it? I'm hoping thillskier gets back to us to give us some more details - I'm wondering if it's a Hyundai or some no-name engine. The price he mentioned was pretty good (AUD $4445 = USD$3100) if it's something reliable. He also hasn't mentioned where it will be shipping from. Perhaps we should try to track down Shane and ask him ourselves.....

[noahwins]

Hyundai's intercooled version that goes in the Galloper (SUV) and Starex (van) is D4BH. If thillskier can get them through the Hyundai plant in Alabama, that's fine but the market is flooded with Chinese fakes. They're all over Alibaba. I'm skeptical of anything that doesn't come from Korea direct.

The Australian dollar is absolutely tanking. 72 US cents to 1 Aussie dollar and it's falling.

[na3s]

I've no interest in the Hyundai D4BH, in addition to it being intercooled, it's also ECU managed; it's pretty simple to add a generic front mounted intercooler to the D4BF.

It's my understanding that there is no difference in quality between the Hyundai D4BF and the Mitsubishi 4D56t, they're the same motor aside for the valve cover, simply manufactred by Hyundai under license from Mitsubishi.

There are several variations of this motor with different configurations of the head/cam, indirect/direct injection, ip/ecu, intercooled/na, etc...

http://www.hyundaiengine.com/auto_diesel/00_main.html

My attraction to the D4BF stems from it's time tested reliability, incredibly simple configuration, and lack of electronics. It wil provide more than enough power and torque for my needs.

[noahwins]

D4BH/4D56 intercooled is all mechanical. There's no ECU. All there is by way of circuit boards is a glow plug controller and you don't need that to run.

[na3s]

So I've finally heard back from a South Korean supplier I've been in contact with who is an authorized OEM Hyundai dealer in regard to purchasing a brand new D4BF crate motor.

His company typically has a minimum quantity order of 40, but through more than a few emails, I've been able to convince him that I'm in search of an initial 1 engine to be used in the prototyping of a 'non-highway agricultural implement' I'm 'developing' and hope to bring to market in the next year or so.

In light of a potential new market, he's provided me with a very attractive quote, slightly lower than what 'Thrillskier' mentioned.

I'm planning on going through with the purchase in a month or two as his price quote is good through Dec '15. Once I do, I'll gladly publish all of my contact info, pricing, info, etc. for anyone else who may want o pursue the same avenue.

My dilemma now is determining how to legally import the motor from South Korea.

I've reached out to a few importers but haven't gotten any definitive answers yet.

I know it can be done as several members here and on other forums have bought/imported these motors from Canada, I'm hoping one of them will chime in.

I found a phone # for user '4D55Performance', Spencer?, on another forum, called and left him a voicemail... Really hoping he calls me back as he seems to have more first hand experience with this than anyone else. Is anyone in contact with him? I see he hasn't signed in on here in over a year....

After reading through pages and pages of EPA regulations I'm leaning toward claiming 'D' '9' on the the EPA's 'United States Environmental Protection Agency Engine Declaration Form Importation of Engines, Vehicles, and Equipment Subject to Federal Air Pollution Regulations' form - http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2014-06/documents/3520-21.pdf

Can anyone shed any light/experience/know a good importer authorized to work via the Port of Seattle?

I'd appreciate any insights, thanks!

[na3s]

Further research has revealed the solution, and it's far simpler than I had originally anticipated.

Upon import, use EPA Form 3520-1 and claim 'Code W' under the 'Excluded Vehicles' section - http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2015-04/documents/3520-1.pdf

It's fully explained here - http://www2.epa.gov/sites/production/files/2014-02/documents/420b11015.pdf

Now it's merely a matter of getting my pennies together!

[noahwins]

Very nice! I was told to say it's intended use was as a backup generator and there wouldn't be any problems.

[na3s]

The problem I ran into was I had heard all sorts of the same thing, i.e 'say its for a fork lift', 'say it's for an unmounted farm application', etc....

But when it comes down to filling out the Customs/EPA import form, you need to know exactly which code an/or bylaws apply and will hold up.

The approach above should work as an exporter of these motors sent me photocopy of the above document, filled out as described, and previously used to successfully import this exact D4BF motor into the US.

[huff]

D4BH/4D56 intercooled is all mechanical. There's no ECU. All there is by way of circuit boards is a glow plug controller and you don't need that to run.


But that link that he provided definitely says
"ETC(electronic throttle control) | ECU CONTROL"


http://www.hyundaiengine.com/auto_diesel/06_d4bh.html


I wish there was a pic of the other side of the engine - I want to see if is still the same IP as on my 85 4d55.

[longuito]

Hello from South America!

This is my very first post here, and wanted to know if there were any updates on the thread? I have a very keen interest on this subject, since I foresee there will be a large demand form an important demographic group in my country very soon. Fuel subsidy is being eliminated by government, people will want cheaper fuel, better economy and will refrain from buying new vehicles.

If there is still an option to latch into an eventual purchase via Shane, I'd surely be interested. Or if you could PM me his info, I'd like to ask him if he'd be interested in doing some business in this part of the world. Thanks and blessings,

[longuito]

BTW, forgot to mention that my personal interest in the thread is an engine for my 1991 L300 4x4. On my profile I had to put Strada since there was no option for mine. Maybe an admin could help??

[geezer101]

BTW, forgot to mention that my personal interest in the thread is an engine for my 1991 L300 4x4. On my profile I had to put Strada since there was no option for mine. Maybe an admin could help??

Is it like the Delica? They are a cool but slightly crazy contraption out of the Mitsubishi stable. L300 meets Mad Max (hmm, seems very fitting for this site...)

[Uncle Spence]

longuito, have you considered the Subaru Boxer diesel motor? They're have been put into those Volkswagen westafalia vans and have had good success. Here's a link: http://boxeer.com/ They have some pretty good modifications for their vans and they seem to work alright. There's a build thread for a guy from Tennessee who but one in his Volkswagen and then drove it down to Patagonia. I believe he's on his way back now after leaving a year ago.

[huff]

Hello from South America!

This is my very first post here, and wanted to know if there were any updates on the thread? I have a very keen interest on this subject, since I foresee there will be a large demand form an important demographic group in my country very soon. Fuel subsidy is being eliminated by government, people will want cheaper fuel, better economy and will refrain from buying new vehicles.

If there is still an option to latch into an eventual purchase via Shane, I'd surely be interested. Or if you could PM me his info, I'd like to ask him if he'd be interested in doing some business in this part of the world. Thanks and blessings,

The only update I have is that Tommy (thillskier) responded to me saying he was not able to place his order, and basically lost contact with Shane Arnold in Australia.

Soooo... we're back to square #1.

[thillskier]

Sorry everyone, Had some financial emergencies re business, sooo, I had to stop after I didn't get any follow up from Australia. Its really been a WEIRD deal to attempt this buy. Originally (for newbies to the saga and trying to do this) I had a chinese supplier who bought used engines from Japan. He and I agreed to do a one engine test, for 1800. I sent a deposit(PAYPAL!! only! to be protected) 300.00 USD, and after a few weeks, they tried raising the price a couple times, so I had to get a paypal refund.

Its been a long strange "trip" for sure.. I sure HOPE someone (or I) can do this. IF I get another supplier I think I may post it up and let the deal fly...I SUSPECT that will definitely fail, as its got to be organized, IMHO to make palletizing and shipping work.

The reson we can't get from Hyundai here, in Alabama, is because its a non approved engine for auto/truck application in USA. THe emission regs are less tough for ag, bu gensets, and truck refers, where they are mostly used in USA today. A few forklifts as well.
Also, all MY research has shown the engines to be a NON ECU controlled (mechanical fuel pump) engine, and the pump is very similar to the great Bosch pumps used on Dodge/cummins pickups before 1998.5 (24v) engines..Easy to adjust hp and tq (fuel) delivery.for more power:)!

If I find anything usefull, I will come back online, and share. I'd appreciate a PM or email if someone figures a way to import a new unit, reasonably, again...

[cdalejef]

I imported mine from Maximum Overdrive in Canada about 7 years ago, the process was pretty easy and took about 1 month. The motor has been flawless!

[85Ram50]

I looked up the site http://www.maxoverdrive.ca/ I sent them an email asking if they still do this and if they would help getting motors into the US.

EDIT- They responded "Yes we do"
Addendum to my edit. I just noticed the response email is from a gmail addy with no indication of the website or company????? I sent the email to this address on the bottom right of the linked page Sales@maxoverdrive.ca I'd have expected the reply to have come from the same maxoverdrive.ca address.
I'm think I am saying, be careful.

[geezer101]

I looked up the site http://www.maxoverdrive.ca/ I sent them an email asking if they still do this and if they would help getting motors into the US.

EDIT- They responded "Yes we do"
Addendum to my edit. I just noticed the response email is from a gmail addy with no indication of the website or company????? I sent the email to this address on the bottom right of the linked page Sales@maxoverdrive.ca I'd have expected the reply to have come from the same maxoverdrive.ca address.
I'm think I am saying, be careful.

...ohhh :shifty:

[cdalejef]

I looked up the site http://www.maxoverdrive.ca/ I sent them an email asking if they still do this and if they would help getting motors into the US.

EDIT- They responded "Yes we do"
Addendum to my edit. I just noticed the response email is from a gmail addy with no indication of the website or company????? I sent the email to this address on the bottom right of the linked page Sales@maxoverdrive.ca I'd have expected the reply to have come from the same maxoverdrive.ca address.
I'm think I am saying, be careful.

No need to worry, I've talked to several other people that has ordered from them with no problems. He was great to deal with and has been in business for many years.
I often answer my work emails from my cell phone that sends back out under my personal address.

[plh]

he is ligit

[thillskier]

Someone in California is selling new diesels (non intercooled) for $6000! yikes! On ebay, used still 2500 but pick up only, and in WA state, a looong away from Alabama!