View Full Version : valve stem steal broke/ stuck, how to get off?
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The 1st pic is the stuck on kind of broken one, the 2nd & 3rd pics are of the brand new one.
Do I really need to go buy yet another tool, and this one not easy to find so far, or can I just pry on it to get it off? Not sure what's under it, so asking for help please!!!
Thank you!
ehm can't figure how to edit SORRY!! Meant valve stem seal :(
thillskier
03-11-2015, 02:11 PM
I used channel locks, and grabbed it, and pulled it right off. There is a o ring or groove or something you have to get ast (off now, then be AWARE of when reinstalling the new seal!
I think I have a thread on here somewhere re my revalve seal and its wondrous oil consumption stoppage!
BradMph
03-11-2015, 03:23 PM
ehm can't figure how to edit SORRY!! Meant valve stem seal :(
Tink, to edit post you need to be a donator. This will give you availability to sell also and give you a Donator badge on your profile as well.
Those seals are just pressed on using your hand and pulled off like thillskier mentioned. Simple thing to do once you have done it once, lol. Just grab a hold of it and spin and pull, Try not to damage the pedestal it is pushed onto. When you install the new ones, Fill with grease (pre-run lube) inside it so the valve stem has lubrication until the oil catches up and applies itself in those areas. Prior to restarting your truck after the work your doing, also pre-fill your oil filter with oil. Wait for all the bubbles to stop as you fill it full. Be sure to lay a rag under it as you replace it back onto its home because it will drip as you panic trying to find the threads, lol. This will assure the filter from having to be prefilled by the engine pump and possibly damaging things not lucky enough to get lubricated at startup.
While you have valves out, thought about re-lapping the valves? This is also a very simple, but rewarding job. The lap compound is cheap and the tools is even cheaper. Tool is a wood dowel with a suction cup on both sides to suck onto the valve as it sits in the seat, apply a little compound and spin the tools like making clay worms in school. This will help seal the valve giving a better air tight seal with the head.
Ok ok got it! Also when I'm putting on the new seals I couldn't figure out how to not damage them while putting them on at first, but what I did was remove the old one, then clean, then grease up the new seal and the valve stem, and then when the new one got started on the valve guide post thing I took the old stem seal & turned it upside down and slid it over the valve stem to meet the top of the new seal. Then I took a small-ish socket with enough clearance in the center hole to not bump the valve stem, slid it down onto the bottom of the upside-down old valve stem seal & then used a rubber mallet to tap it down, slowly.
Helpful since I'm not strong enough to seat the new valve stem seal on all the way - how in the heck do you tell when it's all the way on anyways? Ugh, so I found this way seems to be working well, and keeping the new seal from going crooked on it's way to the proper position since there's 100% even pressure.
I'm on #3 of 4 on the exhaust side. Debating whether or not it's worth it to do the intake side valve seals or not.... this is exhausting lol.
Will donate YES! Just as soon as I possibly can. Unsure if I have to buy yet ANOTHER tool or not, they're killin' me!!! The parts store, Cost Less & Harbor Freight are making a killing on me I swear. I know, craftsman & snap on but don't have that kinda dough at the moment. Ugh. Will post progress (or un-progress).
Thank you!!!!
I used channel locks, and grabbed it, and pulled it right off. There is a o ring or groove or something you have to get ast (off now, then be AWARE of when reinstalling the new seal!
I think I have a thread on here somewhere re my revalve seal and its wondrous oil consumption stoppage!
oh oh oh I'm going to look for that thread tonight too!! thank you, just trying hard not to burn too much daylight, before I know it it'll be Saturday again and trying to get this thing back together *sighs*
BradMph
03-11-2015, 04:47 PM
Those intake seals are actually most important because they can suck oil through and it goes right into the combustion chamber with fuel and gets burned and then out. Though if the engine didn't burn a lot of oil, they should be ok. They can be change without taking the head off too. Air pressure shot into sparks plug holes using an attachment for the airhose will keep a valve closed so they don't drop into the engine when removing spring keepers. That, or raise piston up enough to keep valve from dropping into cylinder too far that it can't be retrieved. They can be done another time if time is too tight.
Those intake seals are actually most important because they can suck oil through and it goes right into the combustion chamber with fuel and gets burned and then out. Though if the engine didn't burn a lot of oil, they should be ok. They can be change without taking the head off too. Air pressure shot into sparks plug holes using an attachment for the airhose will keep a valve closed so they don't drop into the engine when removing spring keepers. That, or raise piston up enough to keep valve from dropping into cylinder too far that it can't be retrieved. They can be done another time if time is too tight.
Yeah I really didn't want to do all 8 because it was taking me so long, but after the first 4, the last 4 didn't seem too bad. Then I messed up on of the seals so I'm going to run to the parts store before 10pm and get the very last one. I'm debating getting the crankshaft seal (for the back of it, too) but man, with so many seals & gaskets being replaced at the same time I get nervous because I won't know which one I messed up on! Or multiple mistakes at the same time, so we'll see...
Well it wasn't burning oil when I first bought it but it sure as heck was losing it from that crankshaft seal, which after I replaced that, it wasn't burning or leaking at least that I noticed, oh yeah, wait it was leaking from the oilpan too but I fixed that also. So THEN It was all good...
Until the BF got it hot on the freeway doing 55 or so in 2nd (or whatever that #2 gear is on these automatics). Not sure how many miles he did that but too many in my book. Anyways after he did THAT it was burning oil...so he said & I was pretty mad. But whatEVER (said in best high pitched girl voice). Yeah, it was going through oil, not a TON but more than it should have since it didn't seem to be leaking any anywhere...
THEN my kid said "you're going to be so mad at me", and I asked why & he said because the truck got hot since he didn't have water to add to it... o-m-g. okee dokes. Done is done, so fine.
After these 2 things, I presume the valve seals were made sad, brittle maybe, maybe not but definitely not happy.
Then the kid told me the truck smoked last night after starting cold, I said ok lets go see gotta get the radiator stuff anyways (this was just the other day). We went to the store, started it up, no problem, actually sounded great. Parked. Started it up in the store parking lot & oh sh*t. A lot of steam/smoke. Not SUPER bad, but obvious was what going on --- the headgasket. I said s.o.b. that's blue, omg nooooo. 2 miles to the house or less, pulled the dang cap & whammo here I am.
So yes, valve stem seals. Luckily not a lot of sludge, amazed actually not all over rocker arms/springs, etc. just the inside of the valve cover & the oil cap.
Ok so with all that, I agree, all 8 seals should be done :(
Ok so I'm a dork and I ruined the rubber on one of the stem seals when I was putting grease on it a tiny cresent moon shaped sliver of rubber came off from around the inside of the top. NOBODY has one, went to Cost Less, O'Reillys, AutoZone, nobody has one in stock. Fastest is tomorrow. Ok fine. So I'm not finishing up the seals tonight. Disappointed but don't want to put a may-be-bad one on, and sure don't want to leave 1 old one on there, so will have to finish up tomorrow. Thinking there must be a reason ... maybe I'm supposed to replace that crankshaft end seal, too. *sighs* Might as well I guess, it's already right there. How hard can it be?
OH and I've seen the videos about doing the valve stem seals with the engine in the car... INSANITY omg, okay that's absolutely crazy to me. Because those little keepers are simply too unpredictable!!! I've had pretty good luck with them with the head off, but I just know I'd lose one in the great black hole of the engine block if I tried to do this with the head installed.
Oh yeah, and about that rope trick, stuffing rope into the engine for those who don't have air: I just want to put out the idea to use cotton rope, like clothesline rope, NOT that poly plastic rope!!! If the rope strands happen to get cut even a little in the process of ensuring TDC & valves don't drop, if it's plastic rope, it'll melt into globs and probably get stuck in there for good. Cotton burns & tears to fall apart, plastic does weird things.
Okay so I'm a super-level idiot now... I just opened the box that was the headgasket box, since I think I figured out how to clean the head gasket surface on the engine block and getting close to finishing up ... and IN the box was way more than just a head gasket.
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Holy crap, there's like every gasket and oring thingie in there and (drum roll.....) more NEW VALVE STEM SEALS!!!
I was waiting on the valve stem seals that everyone was out in close by stores last night, to pick them up today & finish putting the camshaft parts back together today.
BUT NOW!! Now I've got to figure out what all these o-rings and gaskets and stuff in the package is for! Other than the obvious to even me, which is the head gasket itself, the valve cover gasket, and the valve stem seals I'm oh so happy to see.
This box has like EVERYTHING in it! Not sure what all I bought but this is going to be fun!!! Just found a product link for it: http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/sku/DNJ/Engine_Gasket_Set/DNJHGS101.html (gosh hope that's ok for me to put here in the forum, if it's not sorry, I'll have to re-read rules & such) but that's what I got. I swear I only asked for a head gasket & the parts guy said oh we have a head gasket kit & I said OK.
I just didn't open the box before since I didn't want anything bad to happen to the head gasket & figured it was safe in there until I was ready to use it.
Oh and, it'll probably take me a few more days now that I have all this other stuff. It doesn't say waht all the things are for, even in the product link so yeah, a few more days for me.
Okay still being a noob, I just inspected all the little springs that go around the valve stem seals that I just put on, and almost all of them are damaged, like not a LOT, but I can see that they're not perfect... SO I'm going to have to do them again. Searching images & videos for how on earth people did them without damaging those little springs at all. I'd really very much like for them to remain absolutely perfect after the valve stem seal has seated gosh darn it, this is h-a-r-d.
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Pic, see that spring around the top of the valve stem seal? OMG I am going to have to pull ALL the springs again & triple check & stuff, ugh!
BradMph
03-12-2015, 11:43 PM
Can you take a tool and manipulate the spring into position thru the spring. looks like it just jumped off its groove. Nice macro shot also.
Don't feel too bad, some folks have to re-pull engines because they didn't install the rear main seals correctly and they leak all over the driveways.
Cleaning the surface of the head from gasket material, try a wire brush in a drill, use with a softer wire of course, but it removes everything from gasket material to carbon on the valves and piston tops. Makes a long job very short.
I use one like this 13453
Can you take a tool and manipulate the spring into position thru the spring. looks like it just jumped off its groove. Nice macro shot also.
Don't feel too bad, some folks have to re-pull engines because they didn't install the rear main seals correctly and they leak all over the driveways.
Okay first THANK YOU for the tip! I will see on the 2, count 'em only 2 that seem to be damaged a little if that's possible! I do have 6 spares just in case thankfully! Yeah thanks on the macro comment :) I do take a lot of macros since my eyes aren't what they used to be.
Trying my best to not have to repull/re-do anything, appreciate any tips I can get! Whew! Will post updates of course, still have a lot of o-rings I have no idea where they're supposed to go. Will take pics probably tomorrow after I've done all I can do so far.
BradMph
03-12-2015, 11:56 PM
Kits always have extra parts. Distributor has an oring that might be replaced. I have many left over stuff from gasket kits. They throw in usually for 2-3 engines that might use those rings. Be sure to silicone the half moon rubber grommets at the back of valve cover in the corners. Also in front on the timing area where head meets in the corners. You don't want any oil seeping out.
Kits always have extra parts. Distributor has an oring that might be replaced. I have many left over stuff from gasket kits. They throw in usually for 2-3 engines that might use those rings. Be sure to silicone the half moon rubber grommets at the back of valve cover in the corners. Also in front on the timing area where head meets in the corners. You don't want any oil seeping out.
Oh wow, extras... VERY good to know & they should say that on the darn packages what's all included. Even amazon & ebay listings for the 'kits' didn't itemize the components. Grrr! Thanks to your answer now it's easier to understand why, though ehm, not so great for me who doesn't recognize what I don't need yet ~ haha!!! I'll replace all I can find matches for then & see what all I have left over, double check & try to be sure :)
I will remember to silicone, actual silicone? If there's a brand name I'll look for it, but I'll ask at the parts store, too, and search also. Yeah, will add that to the list of things to search for. I bet it'll be way easier on the next truck, lol! Thank you so much for taking the time to put in tips ~ super appreciate it!!!
BradMph
03-13-2015, 12:47 AM
RTV safe for heat silicone. Blue or black I think and you can get a smaller tube so you save a bit a money. Auto store stuff, not the Lowes hardware stuff, lol.
Ok Thank you! I'm cleaning off all the old stuff today from the mating surface on the top of the engine block... NOT FUN! Actually said aloud "this sucks!" and then wondered if my neighbor heard me :( Must finish cleaning the old stuff off under the hood today because it's going to rain starting tomorrow. The head is safe in my house though so no rush... sort of.
Hm, I don't have a wire wheel and wouldn't trust myself with one for this first time ever head gasket job. I'm using a lot of mineral spirit since I didn't have brake cleaner, and paper towels, rags, and that no-scratch scotch brite on a piece of flat wood because I don't trust myself to stay flat. Being super careful and taking my time especially around the coolant holes trying to not let anything fall in there.
Oh and for the holes where the pistons are down I stuffed loads of paper towels & then taped around the top with electrical tape to hold the paper towels down & hopefully keep a lot of stuff from falling in & what does fall in hopefully will want to stick to the tape. I've been using round wood tooth picks (darn it wish I had plastic ones!) to pling out any little bits of gunk that try to fall between the piston walls & the top edge of the pistons as I go along. You know "PLING!!!" the bit flies out & lands randomly elsewhere.
Oh yeah, and I cleaned the end threads on the OLD head bolts & turned them into the holes like 2 1/2 turns each to keep gasket bits from falling in to the threads... hopefully that will help make those easier to clean out. IDK, trying to think of everything though.
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Wish they made super big dixie cups to turn upside down & fit tight over the piston/piston holes!
I will double check the RTV that I bought last week (from Cost Less Auto Parts) & make sure it's the right kind, thank you! It seems so long ago I forgot which gasket I bought it for.
ps. How'd you know Lowes is my other fave place to shop? Lmao I have some of that silcone, too. Exterior paintable stuff, it always shrinks so matter how expensive it is though. Should use automotive silicone next time & see if it shrinks in the sun. hmmm
Andy 2
03-14-2015, 09:28 PM
Permatex makes good sealants for things like this. I think the gold colour is their best. All their stuff is on their website...http://www.permatex.com/products/product-selector
I'll have to figure out what color RTV to use where, there are a lot of gaskets to do, the head gasket, intake & exhaust manifold, the valve cover & the fuel pump (more than 1 gasket for that, too), oh and that camshaft seal plug in the back of that, AND the half-circle in the front of the camshaft. I'll report back with what I find in case I'm wrong (ha! in case lol) Hm, well you guys said black or blue or gold ~ and I have red. Phooey! I'll look for blue and black and gold & see what the differences are.
This is what the red says on the package:
red hi-temp rtv silicone instant gasket
low volatile formula
resists high temperatures up to 650*F (343*C): Intermittently
safe for all automotive models
makes leak-proof gaskets in seconds
replaces cork, felt, paper, rubber & composite gaskets
for hi-temperature heavy duty applications
OH but the BACK says, in part: "Excellent for exhaust manifold gaskets." "Not recommended for use on head gaskets or on parts in contact with gasoline." Shoot! Ok. Well this is the only place that shows what it says on the back (other than in my hand) anyway:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Seal-RED-Hi-Temp-RTV-Silcone-Instant-Gasket-3oz-LOT-OF-12-80726/141484833987
(http://www.ebay.com/itm/Pro-Seal-RED-Hi-Temp-RTV-Silcone-Instant-Gasket-3oz-LOT-OF-12-80726/141484833987)
BradMph
03-15-2015, 01:41 AM
Andy is right, I forgot the name, but that's the stuff..Permatex
You don't use the stuff on a head gasket. The head is placed without any silicone gasket maker. Just a gasket only for the head.
What I mentioned was the corners like the timing cover valve cover makes a 90 degree turn in front of engine. Right in that 90 where head, valve cover, timing cover meet and the half moon rubber gasket at the back side. Use the silicone where the half moon gasket meets the heads on the flat where the valve cover is placed onto. Your trying to keep engine oil from seeping out of the cracks. I also took some silicone on my finger a ran it on the valve cover before the valve cover gasket was pushed into the groove of the cover. This keeps that cover gasket in and sealed. Then ran a thin amount on that cover gasket just before I placed the valve cover onto the head. Don't want it oozing out all over, just enough to seal it from seeping oil down the block. Don't want to use so much also that it oozes into the motor either. Use your judgment and use enough to seal those pesky places that tend to leak oil after a short time.
Sorry if I confused you. The manual should also show these areas to seal up or place a small amount of sealer.
Andy 2
03-15-2015, 12:10 PM
I recommend using one that is good with gasoline and stays flexible. If you're going to use RTV, follow the instructions carefully. The biggest mistake people make with RTV is tightening parts down to soon before the RTV has enough time to tack up. This squeezes the sealant out instead of just squeezing it.
I cannot thank you guys enough times!!!! I surely would have fallen for at least spraying that copper stuff around/on/over the head gasket.
I will use Permatex brand 'colors' for the right gaskets they go with. Their website has an awesome idiot-proof way of selecting the type to use depending on what it's being used for. Huge thanks for mentioning their product selector :) Way better than the blind leaps of faith in auto parts store employees recommendations ;)
I'll also be especially careful about following the directions. . It's not as bad as I thought but taking forever since I'm learning new things & trying to cover all the bases on every-single-step.
***THANK YOU!!!***
Brad No sorrys, omg, I've been reading your posts for at least a week straight now, lol !!! From valve seals on down, or up, or both! Big hugs & thanks thanks!!! Don't mind getting confused since it all works out in the end anyway :)
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