Embarrasing mistake-need suggestions

[85Ram50]

After an exhausting day I needed to move the truck back a couple of feet. I wasn't paying attention to how far the door was open and it caught the fence and got yanked the wrong way just past 90 degrees. It seemed ok at first as it pulled right back. Low and behold to open it again I had to push hard and it bent the fender. Now I really cannot get at the bolts to remove the door. I really am exhausted so I haven't looked at it or in my new FSM I figured I would post in case anyone knew a neat trick. I Know I bent the top hinge I fear I bent the post. Won't know until I can get the door off.

[geezer101]

Ouch. Only suggestion I can offer is taking the door off the hinges first, then the hinges off the cab pillar. You should be able to get a ring spanner in there to the door side of the hinges. With a bit of luck it shouldn't have messed up the cab pillar too badly - you might get away with being able to use the hinges as lever points and twist it back towards the cabin with a pry bar.

[pennyman1]

you could pull the fender - that would get you to the hinges. It depends how bad the fender is bent if you will have issues putting it back on, but it needs straightened anyways. You may get away with just taking out the bottom bolts and work at the hinges from the wheelwell.

[85Ram50]

I have pictures and I have the fender off. The hinges don;t look so bad but the door closes poorly now and it drops a 1/4 inch to 3/8 inch when it has that initial pop out after pulling the handle. Nothing on the pillar looks bent. It might actually be the door sheet metal where the hinges mount that bent. I haven't figured out how to check that yet.
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Pulling the fender. There is a bolt inside the door lip at the top of the panel at the base of the roof pillar and another behind the bumper end. Then there are the easy ones 3 in the fender well. Two at the base of the door/panel meet point. and another under the bumper at the bottom of the fender. Taking the fender end off is a pain. You can only get at the top and bottom bolt easily the middle one is a PIA 1/8 turn at a time. Do it first that way you can release the lower fender. the top of the fender inside the closed hood is easy enough but it has bitumen tape holding it down. I used a painters scraper and cut it without prying up on it and it worked well.
Turns out I do have some rust where the two bolts hold the fender at the bottom next to the door.

[85Ram50]

More pictures of the fender off. I might go out to the yards where they have a couple of these and see if the fenders there are in better shape. I might even take those two bolts off the bottom of the fender on the other side to see if as much dirt falls out. I'm pretty sure it was that dirt holding water that caused the rust.

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[ragragtimetime]

hope all plays out at the salvage yard & she's back on the road soon.:)

[pennyman1]

If you can, get the hinges also - they don't look right, like they are sprung from being hyperextended.

[85Ram50]

Well both yards that had my truck no longer have them. One of the yards has late 80's with the different style fender. Andy's Auto Sport confirmed they had the right one, I asked because the picture they show is of a late 80's fender style, then after I paid contacted me two days later to say their supplier didn't have it! I am supposed to wait 10 days to get my money back!? and only because I asked for it they didn't automatically refund it!
I'm searching online right now. I think I have found some. One junkyard says they have 4 and another place claims to have 6 new old stock and a third place has two new one $26 more than the other and they want $125 shipping! It might be cheaper than that to pay a body guy to unbend the one I have. :)

EDIT- All those fenders are wrong for the 85 Ram. The years I need are 83-86. Apparently the earlier ones will bolts up but there is something different where the bumper wraps around it. From the pics I have seen online they look identical with the bumper on. Any input or even better pictures would help here. I'm half tempted to remove my bumper and put on two 1980 fenders.

[pennyman1]

the notch is not that big of a difference, so unless you are building a show truck out of it, use the early fenders

[85Ram50]

But which way is it different bigger or smaller? I could easily live with it but I might decide to get the right bumper to fit it. I looked at the picture here and they look exactly the same to me so I am rather confused.
https://orderkeystone.com/images/400/MI1240104.jpg

[pennyman1]

the 79 - 82 are smaller on the original fenders - aftermarket usually are like the 83 - 86. The front edge of the wheelwell may also taper differently, but is not a big deal unless you have an aftermarket front air dam - found that out the hard way.

[85Ram50]

Thanks

[85Ram50]

Think I found one and a rear view mirror a couple hours north. They said one ding on it and they won't remove it until I show up and pay.
What's the deal with these mirrors turning to dust? Is there an aftermarket that mounts OE?

[pennyman1]

Montero mirrors mount, and they are day / night flippable...

[geezer101]

The plastic cases weren't UV stable and they get fried every day. Pennymans' suggestion is wise. It will straight swap - a bigger mirror, anti glare tilt and the ball socket won't feel like a wooden spoon in a saucepan. Plus you should be able to pick one up from a JY for cheaps. :)

[85Ram50]

I'm still debating if I want to drive 2 hours to find a direct fit with "one ding" in it and unknown rust until it is removed (he will only do that when I get there and pay!) for the same cost $65 as a new earlier model fender and almost the amount of shipping in gas. Same guy wants $20 for the mirror the quality of which he did not say. What year Montero?

[pennyman1]

87 up 1st and second gen to 95 at least

[85Ram50]

Thanks.

[85Ram50]

Found a mirror for a 90 looks to be the right color too.

[85Ram50]

So I contacted Mike Warme on ebay and he said he had fenders asked where I am located then disappeared again. so now no fender or window scrapers???
I have started to unbend the fender myself. I'm down to a slight bulge below the RAM emblem. The stiffener is the worst part. I will post pictures later.

[85Ram50]

While the primer dries before I put the stiffener back on.
The fender itself bent back pretty easily once I saw the stiffener would come off. I actually tried to break the spotweld that held that fastener spot to the stiffener but it broke where it did. I used the pile of tools I took a picture of and the little bit I know of body work to do this. I used the ballpeen flat face as the dolly block and the claw hammer to hit it. The rest bent by me stepping on it or hitting it with that 6” piece of 2x4.
I’m at the point of trying to put the stiffener back on, it dry fit real close so I painted both parts with Rustoleum and will take a couple more pics when I get it back together, enough to see if it’s the hinges or the frame that are off. I might even pay a body gut to diagnose it once I have the fender back together. That way I'll know for sure.
I will patch that rust hole with fiberglass cloth since it does not involve the attachment points there. Both holes are real solid.
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EDIT- I got the stiffener in by hand but it doesn't stay. Seems it had a spot weld at the bottom too. I need to get more acetylene and a 3/32 rod to be able to tack it. Probably tomorrow.

[geezer101]

Instead of spot or mig welding it - try using sikaflex. It will have some give to it and will act as a waterproofer. Just a suggestion
(I was watching that MegaFactories the other day and they featured the Peterbilt Truck plant - I was surprised the cabs are glued together! :shock:)

[85Ram50]

Thanks. Geez. I welded it. It was sprung and I needed to anchor one end to pull the other in then I tacked that end. I've got a layer of glass and epoxy on the inside where the rust holes were so the bondo has a backing when I do it from the front. I coated the joint with the epoxy when I did that. When I get back to it I will clean up the outside. Looks like some rust is present near the front of the rocker. I will get that removed and painted before I close it up.

[85Ram50]

I was hoping to get the fender finished today since I have the hinges on the way, but the random orbit sander pad gave up the ghost. Here are some pics. Looks like I need another coat of bondo where the rust was.
I don't have duck bill clamps so I used the Vice Grip to pinch the seam which left marks so I had to bondo along the edge. The black stuff is from the sander pad breaking down before it broke.
The spot where the rocker was rusted proved to be 2 holes once I used the wire wheel on it so I used the supplied expanded metal with adhesive backing and some bondo and did my best to smooth it with the 4 inch grinder I have and sprayed it with rustoleum. Those holes are in the bondo not the metal. I couldn't get it smooth with the tools I have. Maybe when the new pad arrives I'll try to get at it with the Random orbit sander.

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[royster]

Looks like excellent work, getting good results!!

Just fer kicks, (once the hinges get there) you might put the fender back up and see what the clearance is...better sure-footed safe than sorry.

I applaud your efforts!

[85Ram50]

Thanks.

[85Ram50]

Just got my hinges, Thanks ragragtimetime.
I hit em with a wire wheel and a grinder, now they are soaking in 60/40 distilled white vinegar & water to loosen the rest of the rust. I will soak them in plain water and baking soda to neutralize the acid once I am satisfied with the removal of rust. Now that I have them I can see the hinge on my truck with the spring in it moved enough to bend that pin where the rubber cover goes.
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[ragragtimetime]

:thumbup: looks awesome!...so happy I could help. old parts live on!

[85Ram50]

OK here they are this morning after soaking in plain water and baking soda overnight. Note that original container I showed was too small. Apparently there is a bit of bubbling action and it was overflowing I had to move up to a larger container.
The distilled white vinegar worked well, after 2 hours it was coming off and 2 more it was easy to get the stuff off. I saw two vids on YT about using vinegar the other guy used apple cider vinegar on some bolts and he soaked them overnight. I think it is less acid than the white distilled.

I am debating if I should oil through that spot on the bottom or paint it with rustoleum to prevent the rust from growing again.

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[pennyman1]

Heinz makes a cleaning vinegar that is stronger that cooking vinegar - would work faster on rust.

[85Ram50]

I decided on spraying them with rustoleum for rusty metal just to feel better about the bits I couldn't get at to wipe away.
The rain stopped long enough I replaced the bottom hinge and that seems to have done the trick. I will wait until I have the fender ready to do some dry fitting and make sure I don't also need to replace the top hinge. It operates better than it did before I wrecked it :) It was definitely bent forward I could hardly get at one of the bolts which was easy access in the replacement hinge.
You made the call pennyman Thanks! I adjusted the color on the second pic to make it more visible.
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[pennyman1]

glad I could help - unfortunately I know that from experience.

[pennyman1]

A better primer for bare metal is a self etching primer - it bites into the metal and seals it from water. It is available in a spray can or as a 2 part primer. Geronimo was sprayed inside and out with DP40 before body work - he shows no rust after 26 years.

[85Ram50]

I was more concerned with the spots where rust was located especially on the backside. sure it was visibly gone but that stuff is like a fungus if you don't get rid of it all it will grow back. The anodizing was still intact in most places so I chose the rustoleum for rusty metal to make sure the rust would not come back to life in those hidden spots. I also put WD40 on that spot on the other side of the spring. Nothing but rain til the weekend so probably no progress until next week.

[85Ram50]

New update no pics.
Had a dry sunny spell so I tried to hang the fender with it set in its old place and the door was rubbing inside the top curve. I replaced the top hinge with the new one from Ragragtimetime and it would not mount flush to the door side and the bolt that the nut slips over started spinning when I tried to make the nut tighter. The door also lost its good hang and I could not get it adjusted so I put the old top hinge back on. It sits flush to the door and now the door hangs good again. I'm betting this is where the problem is.
I called a body shop and the guy told me it is unlikely that I would have made the fender out that far (you can put them anywhere) and it is probably the hinge pillar or the door skin. When I mentioned the top hinge he said that is probably it. He says get a new door and if I have the same issue its the main pillar that is out.
I have stopped work for now to let my body recover but when I get back at it I am going to try to hammer out the inside of the door where the hinge attaches.
The problem with the edge of the door rubbing is probably only a matter of 1/4 to 3/8 of an inch if that.
I was hoping it would be simple like find a new fender :) anyway.....
I will update later

[85Ram50]

I just drove to the autobody shop. The guy pointed out to me that my fender was indeed out of shape and has flat spots where it should be curved and that was probably the reason it got caught on the door when I tried to fit it. I had missed this. He seemed to think I could pound them into shape without removing the stiffener.

[geezer101]

Not good news - sorry to hear that... I had a feeling the door pillar would've gotten twisted out of shape.

[85Ram50]

Not good news - sorry to hear that... I had a feeling the door pillar would've gotten twisted out of shape.

No worry's geez, he said the door closing right was good sign the pillar was probably good and my problem was actually the flat spots I had not got out of the fender.

[geezer101]

Fingers crossed :pray: hope your cab is still good.

[85Ram50]

So I had an idea. I traced a 2x6 up against the door to get the shape. Then I went to the local community college and used the bandsaw to cut it out. I then clamped the fender from both sidesusing the two pieces of wood and heated it up with the rosebud. It didn't get fully cherry red but the paint and wood caught fire so I figure it should have been hot enough to relax the metal. It's cooling right now. I may have to find my other steel clamps so I can heat the stiffener if this doesn't hold when I unclamp it.
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[royster]

A VERY impressive bit of ingenuity!! Hope it works.

[85Ram50]

Yea I'm pretty proud of myself for that.

[geezer101]

Outstanding :clap:

[85Ram50]

Bad news the flat spots (which are in the same place as the stiffener) were still in it when I removed the mould. I had a message from Mike on ebay, says he has a used one good shape $160 shipped. Hopefully he responds soon. Ebay didn't tell me I had his message. I gotta figure its cheaper than paying someone to fix it. I just don't have the tools or the a way to clamp the whole fender still so I could hammer out the flat spots with the right hammers and dobe blocks.
EDIT- I just messed with it some more and its definitely the stiffener that is out of shape. IDK how to fix that or if I can get a new one to save this fender for someone else. I can put it in and hold it in shape but once I let go or hold it with a bolt at top and bottom the stiffener pulls it back out of shape. If anyone knows where to get a stiffener let me know.

[ragragtimetime]

I have fenders from the 1983 4wd (not in great shape):

http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin/album.php?albumid=301

& will sell entire fender (or both fenders with emblems & marker lights) / or would be willing to cut the stiffener out of the driver side fender. Send me a private message for whichever route you choose. peace!

[85Ram50]

found a fender from an 84 mitsubishi. I have it i cleaned it and there are a couple holes in the rocker panel area less than 1/8th inch. I am letting it dry, I will paint it tomorrow and start trying to fit it. Lets hope I don't need a door. I hate spending money on it before I have a decent running (low fuel consumption) motor in it.
This guy had two other trucks that seemed to me to be the 83-86 variety but he claimed they were 79. I swear the fenders were the same as mine.

[pennyman1]

they may have been replaced with newer fenders - they will work either way

[ragragtimetime]

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[85Ram50]

Thanks Ragragtimetime, Got her done and made the other hinge you sold me work.
So the smaller bondo work was harder??? finally got it done and paint dry about 1pm. Then I hung it fiddled with it, had to bang on the door with a rubber mallet and piece of wood and it finally fit. It clears by a hair when it opens but everything is tight so I don't expect anything to happen. I have a marker light and the damaged fender if anyone needs it.

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EDIT Side note I could see on the fender I used that I had not bent the stiffener back into the correct shape. If you look at the last picture in ragragtimetime's post it shows it in the area of that upside down SL stamp. Its kid of a sharp bend and the top half comes forward causing a curve. IDK how I would be able to reproduce that outside a proper shop and even then I'd probably not get it right without jigs or a mould.

[85Ram50]

they may have been replaced with newer fenders - they will work either way

Hey Pennyman1, I posted a compliment to you in some thread about a link you posted to a site that had a bunch of stuff for these mighty rams and now I can't find it. I forgot to book mark it. do you happen to remember that site?

[pennyman1]

I will have to look to see which site that was - I will get back to you.

[85Ram50]

Thanks pennyman I ask because when I looked at the link they had a grille and a cool headliner with locations to place speakers in the corners behind the seat among other things for these trucks. I never figured I'd forget where the link was. :) Apparently I have creeping CRS

Once it was on I started cleaning up the glass and then got the hood adjusted so it looks fitted properly. I'm gonna start sanding it and paint it all with that primer. I might take the other fender off to make sure it is cleaned out where that rust develops by the rocker. I've ordered hood bumper stops and a fan shroud. The bottom half of the shroud is on back order so 4-6 weeks for that and I ordered a grille. Let's hope it fits right.
I'd like to find a dash pad or know how you guys deal with the cracking. If anyone has the part number that would be great.

EDIT- Grille order fell through. I'm debating whether to drive 6 hours round trip to get a used one.

EDIT2 the hood bumper stops for the 85 MM do not cross fit. they don't have any visible mounting on them at all?????!

[mikewarme]

Well both yards that had my truck no longer have them. One of the yards has late 80's with the different style fender. Andy's Auto Sport confirmed they had the right one, I asked because the picture they show is of a late 80's fender style, then after I paid contacted me two days later to say their supplier didn't have it! I am supposed to wait 10 days to get my money back!? and only because I asked for it they didn't automatically refund it!
I'm searching online right now. I think I have found some. One junkyard says they have 4 and another place claims to have 6 new old stock and a third place has two new one $26 more than the other and they want $125 shipping! It might be cheaper than that to pay a body guy to unbend the one I have. :)

EDIT- All those fenders are wrong for the 85 Ram. The years I need are 83-86. Apparently the earlier ones will bolts up but there is something different where the bumper wraps around it. From the pics I have seen online they look identical with the bumper on. Any input or even better pictures would help here. I'm half tempted to remove my bumper and put on two 1980 fenders.

Which place has the new ones?? I will pay the shipping. Please let me know

[85Ram50]

Mike, I got the fender fixed. Found one in a yard 90 minutes north.

[85Ram50]

I drove the 6 hours to get a grille and it turns out that gold 85Ram50 on Ebay has been toast for a while. They did have the grille but they burned the truck up using a torch to remove the gas tank! The fenders might be good, I didn't see any noticeable dents. I told the guy he should pull them even if they had a rust near the rockers. They gave me the aircleaner assembly and hose, it was really rusty from burning up. I didn't think to ask about the motor.
Does anyone know how to restore these grilles? The chrome is bubbling up in one small spot That I figure will get big over time.

[85Ram50]

Grill on here's a pic. Anyone know where to get the clips for the bottom?

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[85Ram50]

Got the clips. Dodge Dealer wanted $10+ per from a discontinued parts depot!
MB has em for $1.88 each. Ordered four. Part number MB153825
I'll repost when I get them.

[85Ram50]

the hood bumper stops for the 85 MM do not cross fit. they don't have any visible mounting on them at all?????!
The new fan shroud fits perfect. Put the bottom in without attaching it and then attach the top first,put the bottom on after or it won't seem like it fits when you try to put the top on second.