***Update*** I FOUND HP!!

[Can1991Ram]

Since the beginning of April I made the following changes to my truck (2.4 auto, FI SE Standard Cab)


New Fuel Filter
'New' Reman Computer
Exhaust Manifold from a 2.0
Crane S90 Coil
Water Clean of the combustion chamber through a vaccum port


Last years best performance was 20.33 at 64mph (49 hp to the flywheel)

Last Friday I ran 19.22 at 66mph (69 hp to the flywheel)

60 foot dropped from 2.7 to 2.5. 55 mph in the 1/8 so not much pick up on the top end. But at least this year I made it to third gear.

That's quite a gain from those changes!!!

[Can1991Ram]

https://youtu.be/aYT-_e0bn9E

[royster]

I had the honor of being the first view :)

Sounds excellent, kudos!

[geezer101]

An extra 20 horses is quite an improvement. Have you tried experimenting with the ignition tune as well? I'm sure you'll find some more performance that will help throttle response and midrange power. Other thing you can do is modify the intake. Increasing it's length and getting a cold air charge into the engine will build torque. If you can disable and block off the EGR that you mentioned in your other post, that will help smooth out the engine idle and get it to run more efficiently.

[Can1991Ram]

I did adjust the timing. I didn't have a light so i just adjusted to the highest vacuum reading without having ping at part throttle.

I do run the stock tube to the air box from the grill for cold air and it's surprising that I found a tenth by removing the air filter from the air box. That just shows how restrictive that air box is.

I tried under shifting and found it slowed a ton... 4800 to 5000 gave the best bang for the buck.

I have the EGR disabled and when I go the 2.0 head I will have ZERO hot air heating the intake as the EGR set up is different on that motor and that heads.

I know on my old Big Block Aspen I found a tenth running with the Exhaust Gas ports blocked on the intake as it could stay cooled.

I have noticed the power on the street as I can drive around at 10 in of vacuum versus the 6 a few months ago before the changes. So I have more power and need less throttle to keep her moving down the road.

Now I would like to see 18's.

I also power braked to 1500 on the line and that helped getting her going down the track.

I really like that 2.0 litre exhaust manifold and I really think some power came from that swap. I just looks like the tubes are a bit smoother.

[Can1991Ram]

https://youtu.be/5TgXPncJFnQ

Its interesting to see the BIG puff of smoke from my pipe when I stand on it...... weird...

[Can1991Ram]

Well... with a terrible headwind and bad air, I slowed down at Mopar Day yesterday.

I treed this guy, he ran a tenth slower than his dial but I broke out 19.78 on my 19.82 dial on the brakes... grrr.

It was fun.. but I really need some more power for sure.

https://youtu.be/lfiw0AhkW38

[geezer101]

I wonder what the cause of the big cough of exhaust smoke was. Might be time to think about headers and a better exhaust system. Not cheap but there are gains to be made. Still, it's awesome you are getting it out onto the track and having fun and your truck is doing it's best :)

[geezer101]

Don't know if you have seen this thread but if you want to get serious about making power out of the 4G64 -

http://engineswork.com/engines/4g64-engine.html

[Can1991Ram]

The other thing I was considering was have the stock cam reground. Since it is out and i have head work to do ... this could be an option for more lift and duration. Also since I found the "lift" was different due to wear.. it might be nice to have it all trued up.

There aren't any other option for cams for this engine that I can find other than Melling regrinds.

[claych]

edit.

[dash]

seen deltacams.com regrinds actually perform decent in a few motors. ALOT of crappy regrinds out there.
Quality control makes the difference
With an 'effective' cam, u may still need matched valvesprings + tweak ignition curve + rejet carb. Fun stuff ...in 2019?
Most likely you'll still wind up disappointed

Turbo on a stock 2.4 can be tuned electronically. Gradually upgrade. Bump up the auto tranny.
Lotsa austarion members run proven regrinds + transfer 2.0 mechanical valvetrain over to the 2.4 cyl head
Then u should b able to go payback those racers that bullied u at the dragstrip

[Can1991Ram]

Turbo is certainly the way to go these days. And really, you can make it look quite stock.

The issues is finding parts around here.. it's awful.. it seems they crush the DSM cars right away..

[claych]

edit.

[dash]

u don't need any DSM parts to turbocharge a stock 2.4 sohc
you're on the net. What can't you find/get ?

starquestclub members still occasionally get oem 2.6 Magna mpi intakes sent by austarion members
aussie can send u a 2.0 manifold... or maybe piggyback with a magna intake to the u.s. (if it'll reduce shipping costs drasticly)
then have the starquestclub member ship u the 2.0 manifold + a u.s. starion turbo & downpipe
get a starquestclub megasquirt (with a close enough map loaded?).... or your sniper/FItech

[dash]

a 2.0 starion turbo exhaust manifold that is.... assuming you can't or don't wanna build one

[Can1991Ram]

I could certainly make up a manifold. Easy enough to make a flange and buy a bend kit.

I guess it comes down to playing with stock computers, or aftermarket.

For now I will just clean up the 2.0 head and swap it on the 2.4. In the summer I drive it to work 3 to 4 times a week as it's just a neat truck to drive.

It just seems to have to work so hard to move down the road in it's current form.

[Can1991Ram]

WOW.. not only did I find HP I found some mileage. Including my 3 passes at the track and driving all week to work, this last take averaged around 23 MPG.... !!! The is a HUGE increase from the 15 I was getting last year before all the changes and issues.

I'll take that!! I do drive it like an old lady when I'm not at the track and watch the vacuum gauge to try and keep the number as high as possible when driving down the road.

I hope this next head gives me the same results.

[geezer101]

Results! :grin:

[dash]

big mileage increase is always a welcomed bonus, particularly with the mild power jump. Truck approves of your tinkering
Sounds like it's running decent enough. Why the head swap? Will the compression increase offset decreased flow ? hmmm.

If going the turbo route, I'd mock up the system on the spare 2.0 motor (just allow for 2.4 taller deck). Less downtime
Good thing about megasqt is it can come with a loaded turbo map to get u up n running quickly.
Go 4 new sensors if u like, replacing 30 year old oem stuff


Truck won't struggle to get out of its way then. Performance is of another realm.... especially with a tweaked auto tyranny
To give u an idea: A stock cam 2.6 sohc starion lites up an old 60-1 effortlessly. Rips in the 15-22psi range
Some street starions (~3000 pounds) still in the 30s mpg at~375whp, & 1/4 mile ET in the 12s
...and those are 5speed cars. Autos r quicker, truck is lighter. Not bad for an old sohc donk. Makes the effort worth it imo
Not tryin to sell u on boost, but put a perspective on performance potential

[Can1991Ram]

The reason for the head swap is it needs valve seals, the head has 260 000 km on it and probably could use a valve job. The vacuum readings are great at idle (17 in) but barely at 10 in driving down the road. I had this head for free so I figured a fresh set of springs, a valve job and some cleaning up the ports and a combustion chamber polish s well as a truing up on the mill will just give me another good 100K at least of trouble free driving.

It would be easier to just do a weekend swap, then have the truck out of commission waiting for the original head to get remanned.

The smaller combustion chamber of the 2.0 l head MIGHT help a bit in performance

[dash]

I wonder what the cause of the big cough of exhaust smoke was
I'm wondering if it could be gummed up oil control piston rings, or PCV letting oil into the intake
My fwd corolla failed PCV system caused oil consumption and wierd intermittent puff of smoke.
Fixed that, and the high mileage worn motor ran puuurrrfect after

[geezer101]

Hmm. Oil flush and clean out of the PCV with carb/brake cleaner might remedy that. I have long had a theory that an oil flush may even help with compression by freeing up the rings and possibly reducing drag. Can't confirm it though...

[Can1991Ram]

That could certainly be something I could try.

I went down to the track last night and the truck was like a bracket car. 19.51, 19.50, 19.49..... then the air got really good and 19.40 at the very end of the night.

Lights were good.. 012, 039, 060.. then I spun and had a 150 ... Its been 23 years since I won a track championship in Drag racing and at least i can still cut a light.

I started an instagram account if anyone is on that platform and added some videos from last night to my youtube channel.

Instagram: 1991ramfiddy
Youtube: JustJ

[Can1991Ram]

I did not that oil pressure drop RIGHT off at idle in gear when warm. I'm thinking of adding a mechanical gauge to verify how low. Thought of maybe going to 20W50 instead of 10W30 on the next oil change.

[geezer101]

Nice work dude. It's a testament to you and your progress on the truck. The times 'look' bad but the Ram 50/Mighty Max was never meant to be more than a workshop hauler and it seems every outing yields improvements. If you haven't done an oil flush you have nothing to lose, and I'm still sure there's space for improvement experimenting with the ignition timing. Maybe some tires with grip just for the strip. Once you reach it's limits in stock mechanical form it'll be time to look at headers etc.

[Can1991Ram]

I think the engine was rated at 110 and assume a 15% lose through the drivetrain that is about 94 HP at the rear wheels and I have achieved 79 at the rear wheels.. so I think this is the limit of this engine in stock form.

This engine does have 161K miles on it (260K KM). I can't expect much.

I will say the advancing of the timing and the sealed up new exhaust manifold made the biggest difference so far.

[Can1991Ram]

I agree about tires. If I could get the launch RPM up a bit higher it would help.

The difference from leaving at idle and leaving from 1800rpm is 2 tenths in the 60 foot. That's a ton.

[Can1991Ram]

Well.. removed the stock clutch fan ( which seemed to not slip anymore) and added an electric fan from my old Chrysler Sebring to the truck.

The truck seems to rev better without the clutch fan ( which makes sense if it wasn't slipping ) which should free up a few HP. BUT... if that offset by the extra draw on the alternator?

Right now it is hooked to a keyed 12 Volt through a relay.

I'm thinking it might be better to run it off of a thermostatic control.

The only one I could think that wouldn't mean having to add something is to hook it to the temperature sensor for the auto tranny. Not sure at what temperature that it grounds out the line.

Off to the track.. we will see how much gain ( if any) comes from this

[geezer101]

There "shouldn't" be any draw from the alternator that would impact throttle response/torque unless you're putting a big demand on the electrical system at the time (I've seen big in-car audio systems literally choke an alternator to death). It needs a thermo switch installed into the cooling fan array so it will maintain correct operating temps and keep the engine running at it it's optimal. Easiest way is to put an adapter into the bottom radiator hose so the fan will shut down once coolant temps have dropped sufficiently. Dose your truck have a decent sized transmission cooler in it? It'll prolong the life of your trans and improve shifts. I picked one up from a yard as opposed to buying an off the shelf kit for a project. It was a cheap investment and well worth it.

[dash]

some of those single fans draw alot of amps. Most r 2 speeds. Puny alternator probably already overwelmed
Try it on a battery charger with a gauge... needle will spike high then settle down to the constant draw


I personally prefer clutch fans and always run external tranny coolers (dirt cheap from junkyards too).

[Can1991Ram]

I only got a few runs as I found out the emergency brake cable rubbed a hole in the tranny line right at the fitting. Thank goodness I had enough hose to fix it at the track. BUT. I did pick up from 19.49 the week before to 19.38 and 1 mph. It will rev freely to 5000RPM now.

The volt gauge isn't any different than before. A solid 14.5 volts when teh truck is running. There was a slight imprvemnt in mileage.. but not really noticeable.

The stock tranny cooler mounted in front of the rad is still there. I normally like to bypass the rad and go directly to the cooler but I'm leaving it stock for now.

You will see in this video that they noticed the leak.. which was slight.. but let me make the run and then advised me to fix it.

https://youtu.be/LA72eInF4f8

[geezer101]

Nice work. Your passes are heading to the sub 19's now. You running premium in it and are you doing passes on a low tank? I'd be taking anything out of it that's unnecessary dead weight and try to make power to weight gains. :thumbup:

[Can1991Ram]

It was starting to smoke pretty bad at the track.... it cleared up.. but I think those valve seals are toast. Just turned over 260K KM on the trip so that is pretty good for this old motor.

Time to turn my attention to that 2.0 litre head .

The pass was on mid grade (91 octane) and a half a tank of fuel (20 litres).

I'm leaving at around 1800rpm (anything hirer and the truck will start to turn the back tires) and the 60 foot is around 2.5 right now. It pretty much spins the tires when it leaves.

I made it on this guys video around 16 minutes in. You will hear it turn the tires on the launch...LOL
https://youtu.be/ZyGsTSTgEFg

I might just replace the valve seals and springs and take my time on the 2.0 litre head and swap in the spring.

I wonder if I just swap the 2.0 litre cam onto the 2.4 litre head too?

I need to find the duration specs for the 2.0 litre.

[geezer101]

Bad valve stem seals will nerf your tune and overall performance. The oil being drawn into the combustion chambers will lower your fuel octane (basically a death spiral). If you are chasing times, looks like the head and sticky tires are next on the agenda. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 2.0 cam. It 'should' be slightly more aggressive than the 2.4 but seeming it isn't a custom grind I don't think it'll change the engine performance that much. Did you do anything to the 2.0 ports? Mine were absolute garbage and I spent a lot of time reworking them...

[Can1991Ram]

I haven't started on the 2.0 head. I was thinking it could be a great winter project to keep me busy when the snow is flying.

I think I will just put springs and seals on the 2.4 head for now

[geezer101]

I haven't started on the 2.0 head. I was thinking it could be a great winter project to keep me busy when the snow is flying.

I think I will just put springs and seals on the 2.4 head for now

I did most of my head work in winter. Garage got a bit frosty a few nights but it wasn't like I had a life or anything lol.

[Can1991Ram]

I live on my own so I will probably just port on my dining room table..LOL

[Can1991Ram]

It's been a while since I have updated this thread, but since I moved to an electric fan I picked up half a tenth and 1.5 MPH in the quarter. I only have to turn the fan sitting in traffic.

There is power to be found not turning that fan.

[geezer101]

It's been a while since I have updated this thread, but since I moved to an electric fan I picked up half a tenth and 1.5 MPH in the quarter. I only have to turn the fan sitting in traffic.

There is power to be found not turning that fan.

Yep. The clutch fan is a neanderthal method to cool these engines. It's probably not 'robbing' the engine of that much HP, but it definitely has an impact on throttle response. If the electric fan is installed correctly with a relay, it should minimize the demand on the alternator and if you're going to track race it, then an isolation switch to disable the fan while you do your pass might shave some time off your ET's.

[geezer101]

...btw, nice work on improving your passes! :thumbup:

[Can1991Ram]

I made sure to have the fans on a relay. Right now it just goes to a switch on the dashboard but will get a temp sensor to turn it on in the future and the switch to override when on the track.

I'm really fighting the urge to v8 swap this truck. The one I built 20 years was so fun.

There is little way to replicate the low 12 second performance of a mildly cammed 360 in this 4 cylinder without a ton of money and boost. I did see an AWD Eagle run 9.99 at the track a few months ago with a 4G63.. but you can see a ton of money there.

Our 360 just had a good cam and some KB 10:1 pistons.

One of my bucket list items is one of the power tours and thinking this truck might be perfect for that. Bot to win.. but to build to run the tour.

I have access to a v6 Magnum and a 318 Magnum ( wish it was a 360) both with a500 tranny that would bolt in place of the current A500 in the truck. Also have access to a free 3.55 Sure Grip 8 1/4 from a Dakota. People say they don't live but there is a Dokato RT at the track running 10's on one and he said he has never broke it.

I also have an empty 8 3/4 A Body housing that is the perfect width... just would take a ton of cash to put it back together.

Lots of things to think about.

This engine is WAY TOO SLOW unless I dump cash into it and boost.

What do you all think.

[geezer101]

If you want to build a competitive truck then you only have 2 options. Turbo 4G63 or the SB V8. You never know, you might be in the right place at the right time and a 4G63 might come up at the right price. Abandoned truck projects sometimes come up for cheaps due to the owner not having time or the space to complete it. Yes you have to factor everything else in to build it but the pros always say "performance, reliability and budget - you only get to pick 2 off the list"

[Can1991Ram]

I like driving the truck which lends me to a turbo solution .. economy and power when I need it for the turbo... or the V8 and economy out the window.
I put about 15000km a year on this truck... but when I'm at half throttle driving into a head wind my economy can go out the window.

As much as driving at 80km/hr done the road isn't bad.. passing is awful.

I did find a turbo 2.2 lebaron that I was thinking about grabbing as it is a bit easier to get parts for. I would just have to make an adapter plate to get the 2.2 in place of the 2.4.

Now.. I do have the 2.0 half apart... so i could rebuild it. It has a manual tranny so I'm assuming it would be a wide block and bolt in place of my 2.4..

The biggest pain is there is NO performance cams for the SOHC heads unless I have mine cut.

So many choices...

BUT.. I refuse to LS Swap...LOL

If I'm rebuilding an engine.. I'm unsure which way to go. grrrrrrrrrrr......

[Giovanni89]

I don't think you would take a huge economy penalty with a v8. Put some really low rear gears in and an overdrive. My 4300 pound crown vic averages 24 to the gallon. It's about 70% highway where i'm cruising between 75 and 90mph most mornings, and the rest 40mph or so back roads. High 20's is possible with more careful driving.

[dash]

v6 Magnum and a 318 Magnum both with a500 tranny that would bolt in place of the current A500 in the truck.
so the factory 4-speed auto transmission in the 91 D50 in an A500 ? Manufactured by who ?
What mods needed for your low 12s goal ?

[dash]

If you want to build a competitive truck then you only have 2 options. Turbo 4G63 or the SB V8.
I think your options go as far as your imagination really.... and yes, u can have: fast + cheap + reliable all at once

[Can1991Ram]

so the factory 4-speed auto transmission in the 91 D50 in an A500 ? Manufactured by who ?
What mods needed for your low 12s goal ?
All the guts in the tranny are A500 Chrysler with a case made by Mitsh..

When I built the 1986 with the 360 auto, the factory tranny was basically a 904 Mopar with a Mitsh case.. the v8 904 bolted right in and even the factory floor shift worked with no adjustment. This did push the engine a bit forward but a slant six auto cordoba driveshaft was the perfect length once I modified the yoke on the pinion to take the Chrysler U-Joint.

Here is a cache copy of my old Geocities Ram 50 site with the truck I built in 1999. In the end it ran 12.16 before my brother sold it :(.

It was easier to find these trucks back then. We paid $200 for the truck and used mostly stock parts ( except the third motor that ran low 12's).

[Can1991Ram]

http://www.geocities.ws/ram50v8/swap.htm

[dash]

Cool project v8 truck. Chrysler tranny in mitsu case is interesting.... instead of using the starions Jatco
A buddy dohc his 2.4/16g turbo. Didn't give the stock truck tranny a chance, by at least bump it up. Fried it in short order.

2.0 half apart... so i could rebuild it. It has a manual tranny so I'm assuming it would be a wide block and bolt in place of my 2.4..
The biggest pain is there is NO performance cams for the SOHC heads unless I have mine cut.
2.0 manual most likely narrow block.... hence why ideal candidate for a DSM 4g63 swap popularity
Some oz/nz starions replace their 2.0 with 2.4 sohc. They run the 2.0 mechanical valvetrain + Camtech or Wade camshafts. A big pain??
Aussie 2.0 regrinds quality control way better to me. Dynos on austarion. More serious builds run billet cam
Most 2.6 US starions run regrinds also, Schnieder mostly. Lotsa quality control issues. They do perform if/when they get em right tho
Mild turbo 2.4sohc starion dyno ~350hp/~370ft-lbs. Custom intake plenum + cam + custom header + GT30/upgrade + Delco ecu. STOCK pistons!

A basicly stock 4g63 + diy header + $200 holset HX35 + lo cost Delta regrind cams + tuned DSM ecu + mild mod DSM auto tranny
ET 10.1sec in a 3000 pound street DSM. Excellent turbo response. While excelent bang-for-da-buck, way steeper learning curve tho.
Carbd & cam'd V8 is alot 'simpler', but no comparison. Will need to boost or spray even an LS to keep up I'd imagine
What's your goal and budget ?

[Can1991Ram]

I don't have a budget yet. I think first things will be a front end rebuild... it's getting kinda loose up there. Make it safe.. then make it fast.

For under $3K we went 12.0's with the 360.. that included buying and building the truck.. Those days are long gone.

What I have is...

A free 318 Magnum with A500 tranny. Swap it to carb for now... then swap to Holley Sniper or FI Tech down the road to go back to EFI. The 318 alone would get me into the 15's if not high 14's.

The truck I built came in at 2500 lbs with the 360 and full interior... so it doesn't take much motor to get it going.

Also what I have....

Eaton blower from a V6 Bonneville... I thought a blown 2.4 with an Holley Sniper 2 barrel EFI conversion would be fun. Making a manifold is easy. My buddy is a machinist and we would just cut the top for the Sniper to sit on top.

I'm mulling lots over in the way of options. I like to be different and a blown 4 cyl also sounds like fun.

[claych]

:clap::clap:

[dash]

2500 pounds with a V8 is really lightweight.... like corolla light
a stock 4g63 + auto tranny will easily go 12.0s at 2500 pounds. Turbo stock 2.4 can as well imo.
Cold-side supercharged 2.4 will be hot-air limited with no intercooler. Less performance per dollar

[Can1991Ram]

I agree about the hot air. I thought about a sandwiched cold water intercooler between the blower and manifold. I see that alot in the higher HP engines.

I do agree the turbo is the better option but everything I look at this blower I smile so I'm up in the air..

Heck... I suppose you can always feed the turbo intercooler return line directly into the blower... :)

[dash]

if u could put a supercharger on the cold side, u could also on the hot side....
then run an an air-water intercooler with short plumbing
Modified 1.6 supercharged toyotas propell street rwd corollas to 13sec 1/4s.
Impressive for a puny motor that produces tire frying torque

Moded cold side GM 3800 go 12s in 32-3300 pound rwd
Great 2 valve performance, but the truck 2.4 wayyyy less displacement per pound
Maybe u should have grabbed the 3800 hooked up to that blower while u were at it - lol

[Can1991Ram]

I have the 3800..LOL I would like to keep the drivetrain either Mitsubishi or Chrysler. (I love running at Mopar Days)

[dash]

yep, I'm all for Mitsu power
Had I seen the 500hp/500 ft-lbs stock $90 caravan 3.0L, from way back.... I probably would have no interest in mitsu 4 cylinders

Turbo 2.4 + upgraded auto transmission seems like the natural path to hot performance for this truck
Megasquirt probably your cheapest, tuning option. Quickest up & running too (with vendor support)
Go twincam head later if u wanna go crazy

[claych]

??? upgraded automatic transmission ???
A500? AW372? Aisin Warner A44D & DL ??

With Respects dash Please do post the upgrades
THX!!!

[dash]

use the very same upgrade path/mods that r availavble for almost every other automatic transmissions
Starquest tranny mods covered on SQClub forum for example
Your goal dictates how deep you go

Without Transbrake, you can still have a ridiculously quick street car... good ol' brake-standing
My neighbour shifted his 1JZ auto via energizing solenoids, and increased line pressure. Car is quick. Never failed
He says converter stall can b varied thru pressure also
After seeing this auto perform, I grabbed a free JZ(Aisin) tranny. Same size & weight as old 80s corolla. Impressive

[Can1991Ram]

I have never had issues with the torqueflite series of engine that this tranny is built off of. My Big Block Aspen I had up to 7 years ago ran 12's with a 727. The A500 in my truck is based off the 904.. which is also part of the torqueflite family. The tranny is the least of my worried.

I will probably go blow through Holley Sniper. I might mount the turbo under the bed behind the cab ( since the gas tank is in the rear). This should mitigate the heat issues as tube from the rear to the Blower would be long enough to give a cooling effect. The heat from the blower is the worrisome part.

[Can1991Ram]

23410
23411
23412

This should help.. picked it up for $100 today :)

[geezer101]

Bargain. This will change the game in your favour :grin:

[Can1991Ram]

I jumped on it...
Now I have a blower and a turbo..LOL

Now to keep gathering parts.

I have heard the stock ECM can handle up to 6 psi? Is this true?

[geezer101]

I think you can fudge the numbers by disconnecting the O2 sensor to make it run rich so it can fend off running lean boost, but how much...? There are modules you can use to alter the O2 readings so the ECU will run the mixture rich enough to support conservative boost. I did find this in a quick search -
https://splitsec.com/wp-content/uploads/technotes/TN1_Achieving_Fuel_Enrichment_in_Closed_Loop.pdf (don't know if this is of any help)

[Can1991Ram]

I certainly don't want to melt down so I will wait until I have the correct electronics. You wouldn't want too much boost without changing the gap in the rings anyways. I was just thinking of starting at 6PSI. I do have to figure out how to adjust the wastegate since it is done by a vacuum canister.

I found a Neon SRT intercooler for $100 so I think I will pick that up.

There is a 19t upgrade for this turbo also..

Baby steps.... I still have to make an exhaust manifold... or.... mount the turbo under the bed

[claych]

I think you can fudge the numbers by disconnecting the O2 sensor to make it run rich so it can fend off running lean boost, but how much...? There are modules you can use to alter the O2 readings so the ECU will run the mixture rich enough to support conservative boost. I did find this in a quick search -
https://splitsec.com/wp-content/uploads/technotes/TN1_Achieving_Fuel_Enrichment_in_Closed_Loop.pdf (don't know if this is of any help)

with respects have you done a build with the above link????

[geezer101]

Nope. Just a quick search as a reference (thus the "don't know if this will help" statement)

[dash]

td04 is small. Subaru? Volvo? Always get a turbo from an application with much bigger displacement
U plan running blower also? Need an even bigger turbo still. Heat from blower + restrictive turbine... smells like cracked pistons

twincharging only successful if components sized properly. HUGE challenge will be blower-to-turbo transition
A handful of supercharged 1.6 toyotas pulled it off. Stock SC12 blower + big ol T04 turbo to pick up where the SC ran out of puff
Work so well, torque curve had zero downsides..... mashed in the seat from off idle to 7500rpm... all from a puny 1.6
Very complicated endeavor tho. You must love doing things the hardest way


piggybacks can deliver. Problem is finding what/if its compatible with 2.4 electronics AEM-FIC, SMT, Emanage
https://www.aemelectronics.com/products/programmable-engine-management-systems/fuel-ignition-controller/fic-6
https://shop.perfectpower.com/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=51
http://www.greddy.com/products/total-tune-up/e-manage-ultimate/filter:make:e-MANAGE+Ultimate/

[Can1991Ram]

This is a subaru turbo. If is probably a little small. There is a 19t upgrade for it. Now.. I'm not looking to make a tire smoker. If I ran 14.90's I would be happy.

According to some math, I need 150 hp to the back wheels to run 15.00. At 19.20 I made 70 hp at the rear wheels.

I would need to double it. Not sure if boost and fuel can make that must of a difference without super high boost levels. I would really like to stay under 10 psi with the stock pistons. Stock, the wastegate on my turbo is set to 8 psi.

I have talked to a cam grinder in Australia that has a few grind profiles he could put on my 2.4 litre cam but I would have to ship it around the world for that.

[dash]

blower + turbo under bed + sniper + 2 barrel manifold + trigger wheel + MSD + cam + ........
throwing way too much at that poor 2.4L imo
if u gonna get anything from oz/nz, I'd get the 2.0 starion turbo manifold. Starion turbo bolts right on & downpipe
Redzone should be able to source u one: http://www.starquestclub.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=114382&hl=redzone
He had a 2.4 head on his 2.0 starion. Car ran 13s. Knows cam options & can get whatever u want


A crapload of entry level slow econoboxes have ran 14s with manual gearbox: stock ecu + stock injectors on good ol FMUs
Here is one example, doubles the hp & tq to the tires. Spent $260 turbocharging.. best money ever! he says - lol
http://www.cardomain.com/ride/2218783/1996-ford-escort/

[Can1991Ram]

I actually stumbled upon this last night and think it might be the ticket for the small amount of boost I would like to make.

https://splitsec.com/product/lsc1-001-universal-fuel-enrichment-module

I watched a video of one installed. This would let me use the factory ECU and just have the 02 signal intercepted.

$200 US isn't that bad of an investment.

[geezer101]

If it simplifies the set up, the cash justifies time saved. You can give the site a run down on of hooking it up and end results on a dedicated thread. So that link was helpful...

[dash]

good deal -if- it works. Hardly any boosted stock ecu 2.4 for feedback, so your 2.4 is a lab rat
Lotsa boosted Tacomas, so a decent bit of info out there for them to feed on:
https://www.tacomaworld.com/threads/1st-gen-piggyback-showdown-emu-splitsecond-vs-aem-fic.467819/

[Can1991Ram]

I sent a message to the company with my combination.

If I melt the 2.4, I will put in the V8 LOL..

I will start a new thread if I get it.

I do need to get an Air Fuel Ratio meter to set some sort of a base line to measure from.

I'll let you guys know when I get the response from the company

[Can1991Ram]

I'm curious if there is a flat top option for Forged pistons with the SOHC. Not sure if I could use the EVO pistons with the SOHC head .

[Can1991Ram]

One question and I'm not sure if anyone would know.

When we go full throttle does the system go into Open Loop or stay in Closed Loop?

[claych]

One question and I'm not sure if anyone would know.
When we go full throttle does the system go into Open Loop or stay in Closed Loop?

?????

[geezer101]

I think the OBD goes open loop in a desperate attempt to not destroy itself (the open loop keeps reading the input from the O2 sensor so it doesn't run lean injector cycles under WOT) To be honest, I'm not a ECU guy and am sort of biased as I hate diagnosing sensor faults (some are actually dead easy to spot once know what to look for)

[Can1991Ram]

I thought Open Loop does not read the O2 and goes into a pre-programmed rich setting.

[geezer101]

Like I said, ECU isn't my thing. I did a quick bit of research and what I dug up was - closed loop on part throttle to maintain fuel economy, open loop on WOT to avoid lean cycles.

[claych]

??????

[Can1991Ram]

Well... fall is almost here and I don't have a Garage so I might rent a shipping container to work in through the winter. It's not like the truck is that large.

The question.... mount the turbo under the bed... or in the clutttered engine bay?

Since the gas tank isn't there.. I thought about the turbo AND the intercooler under the bed.

[geezer101]

I'm not super sold on remote mounted turbos (mostly the oil feed, extra pipework and possible undercarriage damage) but because this is going on a truck there are places where it could potentially be mounted up out of the way. You could add a fan to the intercooler as it isn't going to get direct air flow. If this was going to be an all out track performer I'd set it up like a stadium truck and put both the intercooler and radiator in the bed with big ass cooling fans on them.

[claych]

???????

[dash]

cluttered engine bay.... with that puny lil sohc 4cyl ? ...you're kiddin right ?
n where did your gas tank go ?

[Can1991Ram]

23517
The tank is mounted under the bed at the back. I centered it so that I could run dual pipes if I decided the V8 the truck

23518
You fill the truck through a surface mounted boat filler neck with a lock.

Yes..... there is lots of room... but turbos can create a lot of heat.

I agree with the plumbing issues. I think I would run a separate oil pump through a tranny cooler into the small tank to oil the turbo if I did it remotely and your correct that I would need a small fan if I put the intercooler with the turbo.

Many say that the long pipe from the turbo back to the engine works like and intercooler and cools the charge on the way back to the engine.

I'm only gonna run 8 psi max anyways... I don't need melted pistons.

[Can1991Ram]

23519
23520
This was the tank I pulled out. They don't make a replacement tank for this truck and there are none in the wrecking yards around here.

So I bought a plastic tank from a boat for $25 and that this what I installed.. I just had to add a boat gas gauge in the truck to read the gas level.

The pump was $200, the metal was about a hundred and about 40 hours of fabbing and fixing MANY holes in the frame rail and I was on the road. So far I have about 20,000 KM on the new tank and repair with no issues :)

[geezer101]

That is a really good tank retrofit. It looks like it's a bigger capacity tank too. $25? - that is a freaking bargain! :grin:

[dash]

Cool gas tank solution. In-bed filler location could be a nuisance when loading stuff, I'd imagine

remote turbo is another waste of time & resources. Again, making 'simple' stuff unecessarily complicated
Turbo underhood temperature increase barely noticeable with oem or any good heatshielding or wrap
If heat becomes "excessive", u got other issues. Countless starions(& turbo cars) worldwide.... no 'heat' issues

[geezer101]

Things to think about - air intake filtration, weight of the turbo hanging back there, managing to seal the whole exhaust system under boost, it's going to spool slower trying to pressurise the whole system. But with some lateral thinking, you could make it stealth and pretty compact. If you used a fwd manifold and have the throttle body facing the firewall, all you'd need to do is add an elbow to it and yeet it straight down. Hard part is figuring how to get the plumbing past the steering box and linkages (time for a rack and pinion steering set up :grin:)

[Can1991Ram]

Geezer... that is the hardest part. The air box is the other consideration. IT IS HUGE.

Also... I see that many fight over blow through the MAF or suck through the MAF to the turbo.

[Can1991Ram]

I would love to go rack and pinion.

I bought the tank at a flea market. I did have to add a fuel return line. The pump I added runs at 57 psi and I can hear the return dumping into the tank so the factory return system works great at the higher pressure. I just don't know if it will flow enough fuel when I add the turbo. At 8psi I really can't see it using much more fuel that full throttle open loop.

I will need to add a fuel pressure gauge on the hood to monitor the fuel pressure drop.

I do have a friend that is a machinist that has offered to help me make a thick flange to build a customer exhaust manifold. If laser cutting wasn't so expensive I would buzz out a few to sell to the group.