Hot trip

[dodgy71]

Long story short I'm on a road trip with the new 87 ram 50, about an hour North of my destination it started getting hot and running rough. Can carb adjustment, timing, and spark plugs be the issue? I think I've ruled out the cooling system being a fault. I pulled the spark plugs and although they're not horribly fouled, there's just a very faint weak yellow spark through each of them. It's the Webber carb, and I have not messed with it but I think it's running a little rich

[xboxrox]

hello dodgy71
Ignition timing can cause overheating especially too advanced ~ check timing
How did you test the cooling system integrity?
An old ignition switch played tricks on me ~ replaced it & missfires went away
Good Luck Fixing & Enjoy the Ride
George

[geezer101]

Have you replaced the coil? They have a working life span of approx 10 years before they start to break down. If it's not giving a strong spark, it will fail to operate efficiently and burn fuel during the ignition cycle. This would explain the 'rich' fuel mixture symptoms. If the coil is the culprit, dial in your ignition tune once you've installed the new one. Don't use anything exotic for a replacement coil - Accel and MSD do not play nicely with Mitsubishi ignition systems. A transformer coil with a ballast resistor will be a good upgrade, look on eBay -

https://www.ebay.com/itm/125141876366?epid=253982047&hash=item1d23097e8e:g:WYgAAOSw3o1hE5P6 (here's a start)

[dodgy71]

How did you test the cooling system integrity?



The head was just all re done and new water pump, funny thing I completely removed the thermostat to see how it acted= heated up to the red in about 2 mins.

[dodgy71]

At this point I would just like to figure out how I'm gonna make it back home with this thing

[royster]

At this point I would just like to figure out how I'm gonna make it back home with this thing

I hope things go well for you. Nothing worse than being far from home with an engine acting up.

Have you looked at the radiator (exterior) ? Dust and bugs can plug up air flow through it. Flushing it out from the fan side might dislodge that gunk, and help with cooling. I am also in agreement that it sounds like the coil isn't functioning at its best.

Good luck, and let us know how you fared :).

[SubGothius]

funny thing I completely removed the thermostat to see how it acted= heated up to the red in about 2 mins.

With the thermostat entirely removed, it heated up to the red? Not just midway on the gauge? That would suggest some other issue with your cooling system, maybe a plugged radiator since you say the water pump is new.

Normally in a case like that, I'd suggest taking it to a radiator shop to have the core rodded out, but since you're on the road, maybe see if a radiator flush product helps enough to get it home without overheating. Leave the flush product in the system overnight, then if it's able to run without overheating by next day, leave it in for the drive home and drain once you get there.

[geezer101]

Definitely not a tuning issue. Run it with the heater on full while driving to take some of the stress off the cooling system. Not great for you but better than frying a cylinder head/engine. Good advice from SubG. Place your hand on the front of the radiator and feel for temperature anomalies like cool spots - it will tell you how bad it's plugged up. If it makes it home alive I would try removing the radiator and filling it with a solution of citric acid and hot water and let it sit for a few hours. I'd even take a heat gun to it to help the solution to break up the debris in the cores (go easy on the heat gun and try not to keep the hot air concentrated on one spot for too long as it can get hot enough to sweat the solder)

Nothing worse than getting stranded a long way from home. Hope you get back without too much grief.

[xboxrox]

Try installing a new radiator cap

I watched this video: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=evpaTW2WJ5Y

[dodgy71]

I think I'll try to flush the rad./cooling system, is there a recommended product to use?

[dodgy71]

I managed to get it home slowly. The coolant flush I ran through it did not help. I have no idea what the problem is.

[geezer101]

Did you feel any cold spots on your radiator and what is the return radiator hose like? You said that recently replaced the water pump too - is it cycling water properly?

[xboxrox]

I managed to get it home slowly. The coolant flush I ran through it did not help. I have no idea what the problem is.

Install a NEW RADIATOR CAP

[tortron]

I think I'll try to flush the rad./cooling system, is there a recommended product to use?
soda crystals (as in the stuff in the cleaning isle of the supermarket) and let soak over night

[dodgy71]

Did you feel any cold spots on your radiator and what is the return radiator hose like?

The top and bottom get too hot to touch, the middle is cool to the touch, tells me it's not circulating

[dodgy71]

Did you feel any cold spots on your radiator and what is the return radiator hose like?

The top and bottom get too hot to touch, the middle is cool to the touch, tells me it's not circulating

[royster]

Just a suggestion: remove the radiator and turn it upside down, flush it that way and see what comes out. Also, while it's out, you can see if impacted dirt/bugs are clogging the fins.

[geezer101]

I would still recommend taking the radiator out and using one of the descaling methods suggested. It is better to not try to flush the radiator while it's in the truck as you will want to ensure all of the flushing agent is cleaned out. Soda crystals or citric acid powder dissolved in warm water - both of these aren't aggressive enough to attack metal directly for the short term. Let it soak for a few hours, drain the solution into a bucket and reverse flush it with a garden hose or a shop pressure cleaner if you have one, then flush it from the top inlet pipe. Heating the cores while filled with the flushing agent with a hot air gun will cause the scale and calcification to expand and break apart. Reuse the solution if you think it needs a second treatment.

*I used this method on a copper/brass radiator and fragments of built up scale came out looking like aquarium fish food flakes. I found the citric acid solution did dissolve some of the garbage but using a hot air gun I could audibly hear the scale cracking and lifting off the inside of the core tubes.

[dodgy71]

I'll give that a try, thanks

[royster]

Be sure to let us know the results.

I back-flushed my radiator, upside-down, and it was amazing the crap that came out of it. Also, the fins were clogged with dirt and bugs - getting that off made a huge difference in cooling. Good Luck!

[dodgy71]

Have deduced it is the radiator, while I'm shopping for a new one I have the old one soaking with some CLR, we'll see what happens

[royster]

If your thermostat was in place when it overheated, you need to replace it: my understanding is that overheating kills thermostats.

[xboxrox]

If your thermostat was in place when it overheated, you need to replace it: my understanding is that overheating kills thermostats.

Yes 2nd that royster ~ I was really anal about concern for overheating, especially after learning the 2.6L engine is prone to blowing head gaskets heads from overheating ~ my truck's cooling system history 1) added Barhs Leaks to stop vapor trail from tailpipe 2) added Barhs Leaks to stop coolant loss 3) same as #2 AND I installed Mitsubishi OEM new thermostat & new Mitsubishi OEM radiator cap, all good lately...

NOTES:
1) My trucks eng temp gauge never worked from 2011 to 2014 we just wondered why the needle always rose up to 1/4 and never changed until turning off the engine ~ THEN one day the eng temp gauge needle went up to approx 1/2 and we thought the truck was going to overheat but it did not ~ I musta bumped the sender wire while working on the distributor Yikes..! A bumb gauge reading can play havoc or at least fool you
2) I only use 50/50 premixed coolant & drain it out every year or two ~ that way the mixture stays exactly new and 50/50 as should be ~ I used to run around buying distilled water and mixing match blah blah big waste of time & money

Thats All

[85Ram50]

I had overheat problems. I ended up getting an all aluminum radiator. Before I switched it out I did a flush I found. I got some TSP powder from the Home Despot paint department. I put a 1lb box of it in a gallon of distilled water, you have to dump some of the water unless you use a bucket. With system drained i added that and filled it with distilled water the same way you fill it after you put in a new WP. You got to run it until the thermostat opens and have the heater on so it circulates through. Then run it to full temp and idle a while, then let it cool. Repeat several times. You might even drive it around the block. Then flush the motor several times. I think I did it 4 or 5 times. Then I installed the new radiator. I also added a 2nd gen overflow bottle which is larger than the OE bottle for the 2.0 but it fits in the same spot.
When I was done I had heat for the first time since I owned this thing! The overheating doesn't happen as much now. It used to get into the red whenever i was at a stop in the summer now it doesn't do that unless I have a load. Small victories huh? :) I still lose coolant, I might have to rebuild before they stop making the parts to do it on this thing. :)

[xboxrox]

Getting parts is getting tougher :mysterymachine: try getting a rebuilt 1983 to 1986 4X4 steering gearbox ~ PickNPull only has 2WD trucks in their yards now

dodgy try these guys for a radiator #115 is 4X4 truck & #700 is RWD truck ~https://www.radiator.com/Shop

[85Ram50]

The aluminum rad I got was the Leland Global 700AA.

EDIT- I looked on carid I darn sure did not pay $200 for this one.
I'm pretty sure I got it on RA and the two RA charges for that month were $149 and $87. I figure its probably the $149. It's really well made and its for both the 2.0 and 2.6 at least RA shows the same out of stock rad for both.

[atownbrg]

didn't see a report on how flow went through the radiator. Garden hose in on top and how much worked its way out the bottom? I'm guessing these trucks do not have plastic WP impellers that can disintegrate live newer vehicles sometimes have?

[xboxrox]

dodgy NPD says they have original radiators in stock for these trucks both 2.0L & 2.6L ~ assuming your truck is 2.0L engine here is the link to NPD $59.00 and free shipping
https://www.nationalpartsdepot.com/radiator/catalog/MITSUBISHI_PICKUP_1984_2_0L_122CID_L4_Radiators-19449-1.html

[geezer101]

didn't see a report on how flow went through the radiator. Garden hose in on top and how much worked its way out the bottom? I'm guessing these trucks do not have plastic WP impellers that can disintegrate live newer vehicles sometimes have?


Water pumps in these either have a pressed steel impeller or a cast alloy one.

[dodgy71]

Update, I tried a different radiator, not exactly the correct fit but made ot work temporarily, I've flushed the old one with CLR and it helped but I think I'll either take it to a rad. shop or keep searching for a new one. I don't want a plastic.

[dodgy71]

assuming your truck is 2.0L

It's 2.6

[SubGothius]

It's 2.6

Then here's their radiator for an '87-89 2.6L:
https://www.nationalpartsdepot.com/radiator/catalog/MITSUBISHI_PICKUP_1987_2_6L_156CID_L4_Radiators-19458-1.html

[85Ram50]

Xbox,
I emailed to ask if they were brass headers, cause at the link it leads me to believe there are will fit in as if it were OE not actually OE. No reply yet

[xboxrox]

Xbox,
I emailed to ask if they were brass headers, cause at the link it leads me to believe there are will fit in as if it were OE not actually OE. No reply yet
and I phoned www.Radiator.com today they do not have the MM #115 or the D50 #758 radiators in stock...

(Not sure what radiator is in your truck now nor do I know what radiator sizes you are willing to purchase)

OK that being said the best tip I got so far is to phone TRAVIS on Monday at NPD Radiator 1(800) 368-6451 there are supposedly six of the #0700E radiators in stock...

I cannot locate a 15"x23" copper or all aluminum radiator for my truck too ~ options now seem to be Griffen Radiator they have an $800 Mitsubishi Starion all aluminum radiator & amayama has Gen1 Strada diesel engine 15"x23" copper radiator for about same price shipped $800

Murray radiator at O'Reilly's all aluminum ~ $505 one core only https://www.oreillyauto.com/detail/c/murray-heat-transfer/engine-cooling/radiator/radiator/02ac48565f9e/murray-heat-transfer-radiator/rht0/433188/v/a/2013/automotive-truck-1989-dodge-ram-50?pos=2

Copper radiator lasts much longer & all things considered cools as well as an aluminum radiator ~ wish I had better answers for us both !!

[xboxrox]

Then here's their radiator for an '87-89 2.6L:
https://www.nationalpartsdepot.com/radiator/catalog/MITSUBISHI_PICKUP_1987_2_6L_156CID_L4_Radiators-19458-1.html

Sub, I saw that radiator too but it's only got a one row core of cooling !!

[xboxrox]

Update, I tried a different radiator, not exactly the correct fit but made ot work temporarily, I've flushed the old one with CLR and it helped but I think I'll either take it to a rad. shop or keep searching for a new one. I don't want a plastic.

Yep avoid plastic ~ if you can find an oem copper radiator I would bet later years will fit pretty close all the way to 1996 ~ browse wrecking yards if you can or Tel them & keep an eye for a wrecked vehicle with a near new radiator under the hood ~ many Chrysler vehicles used similar or same radiators like a 83-85 2.6L Challenger !!

[geezer101]

I think radiators went all to alloy core and plastic tanks in Gen 2 trucks. I try to avoid plastic/alloy radiators myself. Alloy is great for transferring heat but the plastic tanks aren't resilient when it comes to coolant loss and the tank seals can (but generally don't...) fail. I've bought new radiators that were garbage straight out of the box. Getting a half decent truck radiator from a JY is near impossible so I ended up finding a copper/brass radiator out of a van and had a shop solder the truck side mounts onto it + install a fan sensor bung into the bottom tank.

*what I've found is the plastic tank radiators are a gamble from JY's. If a radiator has been running low on coolant for a while, the top tank will split directly in front of the top hose inlet due to it being hit with super heated coolant/steam constantly. It is almost impossible to get a good used radiator from a yard for a Hyundai Elantra and you could almost bet every one of those engines had sustained overheating damage...

[dodgy71]

So I messed with my old radiator today, the stuff I managed to get out of it using the CLR solution looks an awful lot like stop leak

[geezer101]

Grrr, that stuff is the bane of all good things. So this garbage is also floating around inside your block, head and heater core. It kills thermostats and heater control valves too with surprising efficiency (bonus points if you have the factory carb with the water choke) Apparently it's near impossible to completely remove it. I think at this moment you will have to use desperate measures to get rid of it. Pull the heater out and bath the core in citric acid and flush the heater valve (citric acid is way cheaper than CLR and isn't a disaster to dispose of). This is a good opportunity to give the heater/blower case an epic clean and replace all of the control flap seals. Remove the thermostat and reverse flush the engine. Don't use coolant for a while - distilled water only. Drive it for a few weeks/a month, flush again, rinse, repeat. Expect to find out why this crap was used on the engine in the first place (bad head gasket, undetected leak in the external water recirculation pipe, pinhole leak in the base plate of the intake manifold - this one is common on 2.0 G63B engines)

[85Ram50]

Grrr, that stuff is the bane of all good things. So this garbage is also floating around inside your block, head and heater core. It kills thermostats and heater control valves too with surprising efficiency (bonus points if you have the factory carb with the water choke) Apparently it's near impossible to completely remove it. I think at this moment you will have to use desperate measures to get rid of it. Pull the heater out and bath the core in citric acid and flush the heater valve (citric acid is way cheaper than CLR and isn't a disaster to dispose of). This is a good opportunity to give the heater/blower case an epic clean and replace all of the control flap seals. Remove the thermostat and reverse flush the engine. Don't use coolant for a while - distilled water only. Drive it for a few weeks/a month, flush again, rinse, repeat. Expect to find out why this crap was used on the engine in the first place (bad head gasket, undetected leak in the external water recirculation pipe, pinhole leak in the base plate of the intake manifold - this one is common on 2.0 G63B engines)

Just a note form harsh experience, do not remove the ballast resistor?? I can't think of the name of the part that is a spring with ceramics on it. They seem to stop working just by removing them. It is where the wire plugs in on top right You have no fan if it breaks. It happened to me twice and I was lucky enough to find another heater to scavenge. The only way to get another one is from another heater. At least that is how it went on my 1st gen. BTW that alum rad I got is the same one RA shows for your truck.

[geezer101]

Just a note form harsh experience, do not remove the ballast resistor?? I can't think of the name of the part that is a spring with ceramics on it. They seem to stop working just by removing them. It is where the wire plugs in on top right You have no fan if it breaks. It happened to me twice and I was lucky enough to find another heater to scavenge. The only way to get another one is from another heater. At least that is how it went on my 1st gen. BTW that alum rad I got is the same one RA shows for your truck.

There are replacement blower motor resistors that can be adapted into the OEM heater case. Just have to look and compare them to the shape and design of the old one - it may require swapping the harness connector to plug into the new unit. Have to be observant though as some new blower resistors are made for variable control or 4 fan speeds.

[SubGothius]

There are replacement blower motor resistors that can be adapted into the OEM heater case. Just have to look and compare them to the shape and design of the old one - it may require swapping the harness connector to plug into the new unit. Have to be observant though as some new blower resistors are made for variable control or 4 fan speeds.

I recently got and installed this blower resistor block, a bit pricey for what it is, but a direct-swap for my old one that'd already lost the two lowest fan speeds:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/153052687574

[85Ram50]

That is good to know Sub and Geez cause both times there was no obvious break but when I put them back in after cleaning the darn thing did not work when it was working beforehand.

[SubGothius]

Yeah, every time you run the blower it effectively heat-cycles whichever coil of resistance-wire regulates that speed, so they get fragile and don't tolerate being jostled much at all.

[geezer101]

...the added bonus is the lack of air filtration in the heater cases. You don't want leaves, debris and dirt etc building up around the resistor block which is another good reason to take the whole assembly out and give it a thorough clean. Amazing how much fresher the air smells with decades of dog hair, old dirt and cigarette smoke tar scrubbed out of them.