Scrap it or buy new engine?

[Razmear]

Driving home from work last night the Dodge cut off and wouldn't restart. Got it towed home thinking it was the coil and a no-spark problem.
Replaced the coil, no difference, then cranked with the distributor cap off and noticed the rotor didn't spin.
Hand cranked the enginge from the bottom 3/4 nut and it still didn't move so I pulled the distributor and it looked fine.
Pulled the top timing belt cover and tried to hand crank from there, could barely budge it.
Reinserted the distributor and confirmed that moving the engine did move the rotor.
Got maybe a 1/4 turn on the top timing wheel before it wouldn't even budge, so I'm guessing it's siezed up.

So now I'm sitting here a bit pissed wondering if I should scrap the thing for weight, sell off the parts, or get a replacement engine. I'm just about totally broke, so selling it off is seeming like the best option.

Any chance the engine isn't totally hosed and I just might need to tear it apart and replace a piston rod or something, or is it time to say goodbye to the dodge and move on? The body is 95% or better, so if I can get it up and running fairly cheap I'd rather hang on to it, but gotta get cash for some new used wheels to get to and from work.

86 2.0 G63B

eb

[Razmear]

also, what vehilces would have a compatible engine, in case I find one in a junk yard? btw, mines a 5speed.

[camoit]

did the engine seize up? What happened? You are a little hard to fallow on this one. Is it possible that the belt burned off some teeth and just wont turn it? More info please.
But since you need to get to work asap just find a craiglist special and take care of business first. It would be nice to find the same year and model as what you have, then you have the parts truck you need. You can always come back to the Dodge later. Family first.

[Razmear]

yeah, pretty sure the engine is seized up.
Sorry for being confusing in the first post, just got back in the house after dicking with it most the afternoon and my head was still hot.

I removed the top timing belt cover and put a wrench on the nut in the middle of the flywheel, and the engine does not turn. (well it did move a bit, but not freely). Thought it was just the coil cuz it sounded like a 'crank - no spark' problem when turning the key, but guess the starter was just spinning cuz the rotor in the distributor cap did not move when cranking.

I might have a buyer for $600, which is more than I'd get at the scrap yard, and I only paid $800 for it to start with.

[camoit]

so if you put it in 4th gear with the brake off and push it back wards the engine won't turn over? Or does the crank turn and the cam doesn't?
Even if you dump it for the 600 you are still welcome on the board. You will have another one soon enough. Sorry to here the bad news.

[lush90]

Just for my curiosity, what does putting it in 4th and pushing it backwards do? Haven't heard of that before.

[Razmear]

I haven't tried putting it in 4th and pushing it.
In neutral, with a wrench on the top cam gear (the one the timing belt goes around) it is not possible to rotate the engine. I believe it should move fairly easily but with all my force I could only get it about 1/8 turn then it felt like it hit a solid object.
I haven't bothered pulling the head off or looking much further as I'm pretty convinced it's hosed.

[crvtec90]

its bad practice to try and rotate the engine from the cam gear bolt. ....u could snap it right off.
if u crank the engine and the rotor doesnt turn, then it sounds to me that your timing belt has a problem.

[Acuta73]

1/2"x20"+ breaker bar on the crank pulley, rotate in normal direction (think Clockwise...I've had a few drinks and don't remember? lol). Anyway, same way you would set the engine to top dead center.

Trying to turn the engine from the cam sprocket/pulley would be an exorcise is futility. And I agree with Camoit, bad things could happen if they haven't already. Like Camoit said, if yer rotor don't turn, then the timing belt is FUBAR, not the engine. <fingers crossed> timing belt is cheap and easy.

Edit: The "solid object" you hit is a cam lobe...they don't like to turn from the low end of the ratio. Crank is the big pulley...turn from there.

[LSR Mike]

its bad practice to try and rotate the engine from the cam gear bolt. ....u could snap it right off.
if u crank the engine and the rotor doesnt turn, then it sounds to me that your timing belt has a problem.

What he said, when you're trying to turn the cam you're running into a piston. when you turn it over with the starter, the bottom is turning and the piston just bang the valvetrain up to t neutral position where nothing is touching.

[Razmear]

Just waking up.
Turning the bottom didn't move the rotor, wiggling the top does. The timing belt is intact.
I'll check a bit more when I get more coffee in me, hope your right and I can save the Dodge, but due to the 'rocker knock' it had I'm pretty sure a rod snapped and is jamming up the engine.

[camoit]

By putting it in gear and pushing it backward, (I use my knees) you can observe the crank and everything else. If you want it to turn in the correct direction then reverse is the correct gear. Just 4th is the easiest to make it turn over when pushing it with you knees on the bumper, and it will turn slowly enough to stop on TDC when working on it. I always pushed it past TDC (retarded) then grabbed the radiator support and pulled it forward again to bring it back to TDC. It also took out any valve train slack.


You just said it had a knock. That might be bad. Bud a valve adjuster will just tick with out hurting it.
If your lucky, it's just the belt ripped off some of the cogs and is slipping on the crank pulley. Crossed fingers here.

[Razmear]

Got the top timing belt cover off again and noticed about 8 inches of missing teeth. We are not seized.
Had a brainstorm and cranked it to see if the fan moved, and it did, which rules out siezed, then had the wife watch the top pulley and it moved when cranking also, not sure why the rotor isn't seeming to move, but will find out shortly.

Taking a break now because some as$%&#$ decided to put the last bolt on the lower timing belt cover right behind the pulley for the fan, and if I don't take a smoke break theres gonna be some broken plastic in my driveway.

Thanks for the help guys, I thought she was a gonner.

[Razmear]

Timing belt ordered, will PU tomorrow and install on Wednesday. Just gotta set everything back to its timing marks, including the distributor I yanked yesterday, then calling it a day.
Was lots of shredded rubber in there.

[LSR Mike]

You could still have a broken Rocker or bent valves. Been there, You should also change the balance shaft Belt too.

Notice my #1 exhaust

IM001572.jpg

and that was at idle when it snapped.

Here are your timing marks

Cam belt Timing3.jpg

And make sure you get the Balance Shaft on the drivers side in the correct position, the weighted side goes up. it's in the Manual.

[Razmear]

Good call on the balance shaft belt, just ordered it, will arrive Wednesday morning which is when I was gonna put the timing belt on anyways.

[camoit]

Now that you have the belt off you can turn the cam over and check to see if all the valves return to the closed position. You don't want to see a gap BIG between the rocker and the valve. If so then it's bent. Check them now and look closely...

[Razmear]

Thanks cam, will check that Wednesday when I install the new belts.

[camoit]

You might want to look at it before you install the belt. If there bent you just wasted a bunch of time. 30 minutes to pull the valve cover and ensure no broken parts. But I have a good feeling about this one.

[Razmear]

It's alive.
Oriely ordered the wrong belt for the balance shaft, so wasn't able to replace that at the same time.
Gotta get the timing dialed in cuz it's idling very rough, but the Dodge is alive and running again!

[DroppedMitsu]

You really should replace that balance shaft belt. If ur timing belt was done you can guarantee the balance belt will be soon and if it does will mst likely take out the timing belt.

[Razmear]

I agree Josh,
Had to get it running for work, and Oriely said 2 more days to get the belt, so I put it back together as is. Will try to get the balance shaft belt in next week, now that I have a clue what I'm doing shouldn't take nearly as long this time.

[camoit]

I hope you did not loose any time off from work. Get the new belt and pop it on there the first day you have off. I would guess you have it down to 45 minutes now that you have been through there once.
When you go through and put on the belt take pictures and make a post in general maintenance that will explain to the next guy what to do and how to do it. Because I would bet you have found the short cuts to do the job. It's always good to help the next guy.
Or you can make a video for the tips and tricks area.

[Razmear]

I don't have the tech to do video, but I could snap a few pics I guess. Probably time to replace the alternator belt as well, so will do both at the same time.
I didn't miss any work, used the wife's suv, but she has meetings on Thursday that would have conflicted with my work, so one of us would have had to stay home.
I still haven't swapped in that replacement rocker arm for the one with the broken jet valve, was gonna do it today but figured I'd solve one problem at a time instead of venturing into more uncharted territory.
Engine still knocks, so don't know how many more miles its gonna last, (got 250,000+ on it) but at least I'm not scrambling to find another rig this week.

Thanks for all the help.
eb