Questions to help finalize a parts search list, 4x4 drive train build.

[trashnomancer]

I spent a long time looking through the 4x4 and powertrain sections of the forum. After much reading(a days worth), taking notes and saving links, I have come with about as many questions as I started with. But hopefully they are better ones. I am hoping to get most of these questions answered so that this can serve as a useful tool to others that are approaching this truck in the same way, for similar intent.


Anyone have a John Baker catalog scanned? That stuff in infinitely interesting. *answered. There are two in the Resource Center, Manuals section. Great little reads. Check it out if you haven't.*

I really like the external/dual shock mod. Anyone ever measure the mod?

If I want the "Full Monty" front end... I just buy the upper control arm, steering hub, rotor, and caliper from a 92-95 and "slap them in" with a bit of plumbing work? That gets me a little lift and dual caliper brakes right? Can I retain my manual lock out hubs? Is the scrap yard the only place to pick up the hub bolts? I was thinking of just grinding some standard allen screws but the shoulder would be short.

I saw a reference to using the master cylinder from a Montero Sport as a bolt on upgrade, That so? What year?

From there it could be LSD from a Starion/Starquest(82/83-89). Or an ARB locker(expensive!).

But what would be the best rear to match? There were a ton suggested. Rodeo, Montero, Leaf Sprung Montero sport, Montero SR, ARB locker...
As I recall the SR(92-97? 94-96? and 98-00w/ cold weather package) or Rodeo(1997?) is the holy grail(air locker), MS is next then Montero(drum brake).

I think I like the idea of an air locker more then a limited slip. Seems it would be more efficient when not needed, and simpler with less repair time. Should I be slapped? Will trading anything in to replace the free differentials cost me power/economy? I only plan to add an intercooler and improve breath-ability as far as performance is concerned, maybe a different turbo at some point, but likely, no.

Can anyone help clarify this decision?

I figure I should know what to ask for if I am going to spend a day calling wrecking yards looking for parts.

[geezer101]

Air lockers are available new for Mitsubishis but they are not cheap (ARB make them in Australia). The stock LSD's in 4x4 Mitsubishis are not garbage and can be resurrected with a good flush out with diesel fuel and a top up of fresh oil (that is as long as there isn't a sea of metal chunks floating in the housings). As for hardware choice, I'm not clued in on 4x4 stuff but I think using a Monty rear diff will increase overall track. There is likely to be differences with the hand brake cables as well.

[trashnomancer]

I will throw out a few other things I noted.

Rubber/urathane/parts/upgrades can be had at the following:
Energy Suspension
http://adventuredrivendesign.com
RockAuto
Prothane
Import Replacement Parts (cab mounts and body lifts)
JC(generic body lift)
4crawler
Others?

Sway bars from:
Addco
Belltech

Torsion Bars can be had from Sway-Away... for a price... and a long lead time...
It is likely much easier to order them from adventuredrivendesign.com, though still a 6 week lead.
There was a second shop but I can not lay my fingers on the name at the moment.

Leveling the Montero lift requires an Add-a-leaf or a 2" Toyota front lift shackle.

[trashnomancer]

I should state my intent for this build.

I would like to get Grumbles back up to top driving order with as many mods/updates as possible, that do not cost to much more then direct rebuilt, that gain me lift, drive performance, economy, drive comfort or durability.

Priority is(in decreasing order):
economy(gearing, intercooler, larger exhaust, better intake)
durability(urethane, heavier running gear)
performance(major brake upgrade, urethane, intercooler)
lift(just a bit, what comes easy, monty lift and fresh torsion bars, maybe slightly larger tires, I do not want to push it)
comfort(seats, shocks)

I wish to replace as much rubber with urethane as I can. Spend to much on shocks, rebuild and repaint as much as I can.

Truck will be used for long cross country driving, light climbing, sand/desert conditions, some mud, lots of squirrel trails. Very little city, extremely little big city driving. Hoping to run at 1800 to 2000 most of the time. Happy on the highway at 60mph. Really want to push the MPG limit.

Have a rough budget brewing. Should be able to move forward with the front suspension build unhindered by finances. Get the tranny/cluch figured out or maybe even replaced if someone has a good suggestion, so I can get around. Then I will need to save up again to get the differentials and rear axle figured out. In between I will be working on the body work and electrical.

Grumbles will be a lifetime truck for me. I have searched long and hard, thought of making serious mods to other vehicles, and in the end, found the truck that was made for me. I am more then willing to go the extra mile to make the truck as useful to me as it possibly can be. And I am not afraid to spend money as needed to have a serious tool in the end. And I feel, fully rebuilding the little beast, over time, will give me great confidence out in the field, a benefit worth a great deal to me. I also have a flexable schedule, so if I am willing to tighten my belt, I can free up time to work on the truck as needed.

[pennyman1]

Try this for bushings and torsion bars: http://adventuredrivendesign.com/oca...berian+Bushing . Also, a lsd from a starquest will fit in the front diff of the 4x4.

[tortron]

Have seen factory air lockers for mitsi trucks. Not sure if you got them over there though.
There are some john baker catalogues in the manuals section of the site

[geezer101]

I've posted this link before but only in regards to using my diesel engine oil flush technique but in a completely different application. Have a read through the whole thread, the comments are gold. Nissan and Toyota owners - bring your own salt

https://www2.pajeroclub.com.au/forum...ad.php?t=35290

[trashnomancer]

So a locker is preferred over a LSD in most cases, right? ARB locker is a bit of an investment. But it would be a front locker.

I was hoping to save as much cash as possible by shopping at the scrap yard rather then the performance parts companies. Figure the ARB is the only choice for a front air locker that I know. Thinking a Starquest would be a good middle ground to get started though. Something to try, and if Geezer101's technique works well, it might be all I really need. I will definitely be asking around for them when I start calling up junkyards.

Years of interest are 82-89 right? This will be a mod for later anyways, but good to get ironed out. Any other mythic parts others would want/need if I am calling around anyways? I would be happy to have some trade, or sale, or hookup goods.

I was under the impression that LSD were very rare in first gen trucks, I did not even consider if I had one. Let me guess, they all do... I will have to look at that. Though in the end I am really angling for rear disk brakes(big ones too if possible). I like the idea of being able to stop a moment ago, if I can keep the tires attached to the road at that point. I will have to read through my saved links again and try to iron out the choices I ran across.

Thank you all for the comments and suggestions. And for all your past work I am currently digesting.

[tortron]

2nd gen lsd complete diff or nugget only will swap over

Talking to mitsi parts wrecker over here and he said he has a feeling pajero rear disks will bolt up to the 2nd gen diff housing. You would need to do a little more work to get the whole lot working, but il be measuring some stuff up next time im there

[trashnomancer]

Found a line on a Gen 2 Monty front end, Control arms to hubs(rotors and calipers). And a conquest differential. I need to look up what else I need for the Conquest as far as plumbing and all. But I figure I will order them tomorrow, then fresh urethane, tie rods and ball joints, might want fresh rotors and pads too.

Are there any other parts I need for the Conquest differential mod? Is the Gen 2 Monty lower arm interchangeable with the Gen 1 Mighty Max? Can I use my locking gen 1 hubs on auto hubs from the Monty? Are there better/other locking hubs I can use with more common bolts?

Not sure about shocks yet but I should make a decision. Budget is getting tight.

And that should be it for this chapter of the build. Get the front end figured out. Then play with the clutch. Fix the big holes. Then the rear end.

[trashnomancer]

K. So I am putting up some donation money for the site if I can get a hard "Yes/No" and some "Don't forget"'s on my build before I go ahead and spend a bunch of money.

Plan as it stands:
Buy from frame out to hub, all the suspension and brake out of a 2ed Gen 4x4 montaro, clean, strip and paint, new bearings, new rubber.(any difference by engine or package? Years of interest/avoidance? Do all have dual piston calipers?)
Source Aisian locking hubs that are compatible with the Montaro hubs I get(any years/spline count preferred?) Polish and repack
Buy brake rotors and source a bracket and dust shield from the 16" MS for I believe 315mm rotors. Get some custom line work done.
Try and identify and source 15" rims that will fit the 16" MS rotors/caliper, otherwise MS 16's. Paint and mount reasonable sized semi-aggressive used rubber on them. Thinking no larger then 29", skinny, aggressive.
Buy Siberia Poly for UCA and LCA, wish they had them in black or puke/pea green... industrial gray...
Buy Shocks(thinking the Bilstiens on ADD, Would the 4 piece 2ed gen montaro kit be a bolt on for a mighty? Any opinions on brand?)
Need to find some new ball joints and tie rod ends. Saw a site with all sorts of nice choices, but lost it in my horde of links.
Need to find idle arm poly bushing set. And tie rod urathanes, Ball joint poly too if they exist.
Will buy the HD torsion bars if the budget fits them. Else they wait for a bit.


I would like to know for sure:
315mm brake pad and dual piston is as much brake as I can get on this little truck without serious work right?
Are all gen 2 montaros good for the lift, or only up to 95? Why?
Are there any extra pieces I need for the Starquest Diff? Is it just the pumpkin? I will not be there to pull parts so I need to know what to ask for.
I thought I read that a 2ed gen Monty sway bar is a bit firmer and bolts in. True?
And I read that a 2ed Gen Monty Sport has a brake master cylinder that is slightly larger and bolts right in. True?
2ed gen monty battery tray mounts where washer tank is mounted under the hood in truck. True?
Any other easy mods for the front I am missing?
Is there a better route to take all together?



For a further donation is there any clutch/tranny/transfer case combo that would be semi bolt in that would increase durability or usability worth the price? As that is the next bite. Was just going to replace master and clutch bearing, and figure out what seals need to be replaced. 4th synco shows serious ware, the mechanic says. Just wondering if there is something else that would fit the bill to stick money into instead of the stock setup. If it doesn't double or triple the price, and gets me a beefier setup, I might be game.

Rear end is later still. May not get back there for awhile outside of a flush and fluid change, leaf spring bushings and a helper spring. I will need to read up if the 16" rim MS rear end is a fair candidate for the build. I saw it mentioned but not discussed. At least the front and rear brakes would have balanced stopping power.

Anyways, I got some money for the site if I can get some serious advice and conformation. $50 or more depending on how much gets covered how deeply. Comment on whatever you know to help the site do more for it's members. I would be happy giving up to 10% of parts cost to the site to get this build together right. Cheaper then shop rate. And far more educational.

[trashnomancer]

So it doesn't look like anyone is willing/able to answer my question in time. Looks like I am going to have to try a different strategy to get this job done smoothly.

So I am going to order parts a few hours before the scrap yard closes. Give them something to work on Monday...

Anyways, to answer all my questions, and a few other peoples... I am thinking of asking for:

2ed gen 92-95 Montero, front, control arms out, and steering wheel to knuckle, manual locking hubs.
16" Montero Sport Steering hub out(steering hub is a no go but need bracket and dust shield) Including master cylinder, lines and rims.
1997 Monty Sport Limited rear end(supposedly a full locker?) maybe a 98-99(has snow mode, a low speed locker/LSD?)
Keep finding different info... 94-99 Monty SR with cold climate package... locker, disc.

Starquest rear end, to hubs, everything attached(differential), alternator, and intercooler system

I know the yard I was talking to had the 2ed gen monty and the starquest, not sure about the sport. I found a company in WI that will likely be able to track down the 16" parts. Still really need to find the 15's that fit, I might know another place to ask.

I figure when it all arrives I can take measurements and pictures, decide on a plan, order rubber and joints, and get things bolted together. Should have a great deal of spare parts when I am done. Hopefully others can find use.

Shipping is going to kill me.

[trashnomancer]

Just put my order in.

Starquest Diff
2ed Gen Montero steering hub assembly and control arms
2ed Gen Sway Bar

I was not sure enough about the years for the 16" hubs. On further readings, it sounds like you can just buy a caliper with bracket and the 315mm rotors bolt them on and go, still no dust shields though. Wouldn't be to big a thing to hack some together though. So I will likely just try that route. It can always be done later. Hopefully the hubs I get had a recent brake job...

Starquest was missing all the intake. And guy said the starquest alternator was only rated at 75amp. Guess I got my facts crooked. Back to looking. Really want the 100amp that requires a modded bracket and a bit of shimming.

At least shipping will be cheap. They may not even have the sway bar. I am sure that would help it fit on a pallet.

[tortron]

Good on ya mate.
I got some parts off a 4wd a while ago. Wondering if you have the larger capacity fuel tank in yours? (im thinking of doing an aux tank myself as the large capnone ibgot turned out to be a normal one)
Anyway. I also got the bull bars with side brushbars and sill protectors. Attached was an A frame bracket for towing the truck, very basic but would also be a good part to mount some aux items like winch and skid pan. Looks like it doesnt bolt up to my 2wd however so im not sure if im missing a bracket or if its a 4wd only setup. Can take photos of that if you like

[pennyman1]

depending on the year of starquest and trim level, they came with 75 or 100 amp alternator. The Monteros have certain trim levels that came with either LSDs or air lockers - SR models can have either - check the Montero Facebook pages for helpful information on which models have air lockers. Be aware that depending on the year, the rear axles will be either 9 or 9.5 inch, and may have coil or air spring suspension. If the axle is out of a Montero Sport, the spring issue wouldn't apply, but the whole axle would need to be swapped in either case. There is also a Chinese knockoff of the ARB air locker that is out there - no idea of its quality.

[yamahlr]

Check the Power Brute lsd on EBay. There is a thread. Did a lot of research, these are the OEM units reboxed and sold here. Very good unit for price and all new.

[pennyman1]

They are the same as the LSDs in the Monteros and upscale 4x4 trucks, and fit the 8" rear ends we have in the trucks.

[MainstreaM]

Here is my Recipe for my Raider.
Parts from Montero SR:
front everything, all steering (box too), control arms (upper and lower), hubs, knuckles, brakes
Rear 9.5 disc brake air locker axle and air compressor (will use a triagulated 4 link to install)
Brake master and booster

Upgrade parts from other 1G and mitsu's
Auto diff and axles (starion LSD or ARB, undecided)
Aisin factory hubs
83 Starion steering wheel
Diesel tach from a Pajero
4D55, intercooled
4cyl auto trans (needs diesel specific converter and valve body)
Factory Xfer case but would like to upgrade to atlas twin stick

Kane

[trashnomancer]

Nice Mainstream! I really appreciate your willingness to share your information. I will need to track down an SR to pull parts from. Unlikely to find one here. May have to wait for one of my trips out West. Oregon or Arizona will likely have what I need.

Can I get a bit more info? Why all the steering from the Monty SR? On an SR what is different then a standard Monty? And why a Pajaro Diesel tach? The rest of the parts I can see and understand(do not know why a starion steering wheel either. But I realize the one I have leave a bit to be desired.) I have not yet had the chance to look under the hood of a Monty to look at differences.

[MainstreaM]

Why all the steering from the Monty SR? On an SR what is different then a standard Monty?

The idler arm is an upgrade and much less prone to failure than the 1G design. The angle is different so to avoid any issues with bumpsteer and such I am choosing to replace it all. The extra width on the tie rods will be needed if using the SR control arms. The steering box has a better ratio at around 3 turns lock to lock, it is also beefier, the pitman arm only fits the second gen box so it is necessary.

And why a Pajaro Diesel tach?

My Raider has been swapped with a 4D55 diesel. The tach for the gas engine takes a totally different signal and will not work at all. The US never got a diesel in the Montero/Raider so you have to import bits that were available every where else in the world to make it work like factory.

why a starion steering wheel

4 spoke, more sporty, 83 was gray to match the interior, and most important of all, I had one on the shelf collecting dust so why not. lol

When done, my Raider should be SR front and Rear in a SWB 1G frame with diesel and big front diff. Most of this info is buried in the 4x4wire forums. That site is the go to for Montero info.

Kane

[trashnomancer]

I see... So, looks like I should have ordered some more parts from the yard. Dang. That will cost me some. Guess I did not get my facts together well enough. Another tuition bill.

So I should have ordered up all the steering too... Thought it would be wise... Ah well, lesson learned. Guess I will call the yard up in the next day or two. I will have them pull the steering wheel as well.

Anything else I am going to be missing?

Starting to feel this was the wrong buy for me at the time. Been without a car for a long time now(before this truck). Live 5 miles from anything. Ordering parts blind. Limited internet. Limited nest egg getting smaller and smaller. Oh, and my basement flooded badly as of yesterday. Great time to expand my comfort zones a little more though. I have never been accused of being practical...

At least I know better what to expect coming up. Thank you again so much for the through answer MainstreaM!

With the basement flooded, at least I will be so busy as to not have to worry about the truck much.

Best get at it.

[MainstreaM]

I would highly recommend going through 4x4wire and reading up. If you are staying with 1G arms and spindle, steering isn't necessary.

Kane

[trashnomancer]

-MainstreaM!

I found some answers I needed. And you have been just the right help.

I plan to go fully over to 2ed Gen Monty front end, Starquest Diff and SR rear locker as I understand it. Still figuring button and bolt.

Hoping today I run across a list of the differences between the Montero packages over the years. I know the locker comes in many SR and a few LR trim packages. I was more curious as to other brake system, steering and suspension components. I can not wait to have Grumbles running. Then I can get out and look for myself. There are a handful within the 90 mile range.

To bad more forums do not have a feature that adds tags to threads, so when a person searches they get the thread title and a series of hash tags associated. A score would be great too.

I keep finding the best info on a subject like shock choice ends up in a thread titled "Farnsworth gets his rubber on" or "Please help me wheel hair" or "Constipated! Suggestions?"... So then it ends up forcing me to search down every possible trail. Or a discussion on rim choices gets posted in General Discussion

I understand the experts have paid their dues and we noobs perhaps expect things to come a bit to easy right off. Thank you all for the patience. Got to keep using that search feature.

[geezer101]

A link system to related threads would be good. It's one of the bug bears of most search functions that it will find the words directly to your search, which ends with every post with 2 words in it coming up (most of them are the same enquiry that the searcher is making - how do I? where do I? etc...)

[tortron]

Better to use the Google search function, then you can use it to search for specific terms, leave out others