***Update*** I FOUND HP!!

[geezer101]

Nice work dude. It's a testament to you and your progress on the truck. The times 'look' bad but the Ram 50/Mighty Max was never meant to be more than a workshop hauler and it seems every outing yields improvements. If you haven't done an oil flush you have nothing to lose, and I'm still sure there's space for improvement experimenting with the ignition timing. Maybe some tires with grip just for the strip. Once you reach it's limits in stock mechanical form it'll be time to look at headers etc.

[Can1991Ram]

I think the engine was rated at 110 and assume a 15% lose through the drivetrain that is about 94 HP at the rear wheels and I have achieved 79 at the rear wheels.. so I think this is the limit of this engine in stock form.

This engine does have 161K miles on it (260K KM). I can't expect much.

I will say the advancing of the timing and the sealed up new exhaust manifold made the biggest difference so far.

[Can1991Ram]

I agree about tires. If I could get the launch RPM up a bit higher it would help.

The difference from leaving at idle and leaving from 1800rpm is 2 tenths in the 60 foot. That's a ton.

[Can1991Ram]

Well.. removed the stock clutch fan ( which seemed to not slip anymore) and added an electric fan from my old Chrysler Sebring to the truck.

The truck seems to rev better without the clutch fan ( which makes sense if it wasn't slipping ) which should free up a few HP. BUT... if that offset by the extra draw on the alternator?

Right now it is hooked to a keyed 12 Volt through a relay.

I'm thinking it might be better to run it off of a thermostatic control.

The only one I could think that wouldn't mean having to add something is to hook it to the temperature sensor for the auto tranny. Not sure at what temperature that it grounds out the line.

Off to the track.. we will see how much gain ( if any) comes from this

[geezer101]

There "shouldn't" be any draw from the alternator that would impact throttle response/torque unless you're putting a big demand on the electrical system at the time (I've seen big in-car audio systems literally choke an alternator to death). It needs a thermo switch installed into the cooling fan array so it will maintain correct operating temps and keep the engine running at it it's optimal. Easiest way is to put an adapter into the bottom radiator hose so the fan will shut down once coolant temps have dropped sufficiently. Dose your truck have a decent sized transmission cooler in it? It'll prolong the life of your trans and improve shifts. I picked one up from a yard as opposed to buying an off the shelf kit for a project. It was a cheap investment and well worth it.

[dash]

some of those single fans draw alot of amps. Most r 2 speeds. Puny alternator probably already overwelmed
Try it on a battery charger with a gauge... needle will spike high then settle down to the constant draw


I personally prefer clutch fans and always run external tranny coolers (dirt cheap from junkyards too).

[Can1991Ram]

I only got a few runs as I found out the emergency brake cable rubbed a hole in the tranny line right at the fitting. Thank goodness I had enough hose to fix it at the track. BUT. I did pick up from 19.49 the week before to 19.38 and 1 mph. It will rev freely to 5000RPM now.

The volt gauge isn't any different than before. A solid 14.5 volts when teh truck is running. There was a slight imprvemnt in mileage.. but not really noticeable.

The stock tranny cooler mounted in front of the rad is still there. I normally like to bypass the rad and go directly to the cooler but I'm leaving it stock for now.

You will see in this video that they noticed the leak.. which was slight.. but let me make the run and then advised me to fix it.

https://youtu.be/LA72eInF4f8

[geezer101]

Nice work. Your passes are heading to the sub 19's now. You running premium in it and are you doing passes on a low tank? I'd be taking anything out of it that's unnecessary dead weight and try to make power to weight gains.

[Can1991Ram]

It was starting to smoke pretty bad at the track.... it cleared up.. but I think those valve seals are toast. Just turned over 260K KM on the trip so that is pretty good for this old motor.

Time to turn my attention to that 2.0 litre head .

The pass was on mid grade (91 octane) and a half a tank of fuel (20 litres).

I'm leaving at around 1800rpm (anything hirer and the truck will start to turn the back tires) and the 60 foot is around 2.5 right now. It pretty much spins the tires when it leaves.

I made it on this guys video around 16 minutes in. You will hear it turn the tires on the launch...LOL
https://youtu.be/ZyGsTSTgEFg

I might just replace the valve seals and springs and take my time on the 2.0 litre head and swap in the spring.

I wonder if I just swap the 2.0 litre cam onto the 2.4 litre head too?

I need to find the duration specs for the 2.0 litre.

[geezer101]

Bad valve stem seals will nerf your tune and overall performance. The oil being drawn into the combustion chambers will lower your fuel octane (basically a death spiral). If you are chasing times, looks like the head and sticky tires are next on the agenda. I wouldn't be too concerned about the 2.0 cam. It 'should' be slightly more aggressive than the 2.4 but seeming it isn't a custom grind I don't think it'll change the engine performance that much. Did you do anything to the 2.0 ports? Mine were absolute garbage and I spent a lot of time reworking them...

[Can1991Ram]

I haven't started on the 2.0 head. I was thinking it could be a great winter project to keep me busy when the snow is flying.

I think I will just put springs and seals on the 2.4 head for now

[geezer101]

I haven't started on the 2.0 head. I was thinking it could be a great winter project to keep me busy when the snow is flying.

I think I will just put springs and seals on the 2.4 head for now

I did most of my head work in winter. Garage got a bit frosty a few nights but it wasn't like I had a life or anything lol.

[Can1991Ram]

I live on my own so I will probably just port on my dining room table..LOL

[Can1991Ram]

It's been a while since I have updated this thread, but since I moved to an electric fan I picked up half a tenth and 1.5 MPH in the quarter. I only have to turn the fan sitting in traffic.

There is power to be found not turning that fan.

[geezer101]

It's been a while since I have updated this thread, but since I moved to an electric fan I picked up half a tenth and 1.5 MPH in the quarter. I only have to turn the fan sitting in traffic.

There is power to be found not turning that fan.

Yep. The clutch fan is a neanderthal method to cool these engines. It's probably not 'robbing' the engine of that much HP, but it definitely has an impact on throttle response. If the electric fan is installed correctly with a relay, it should minimize the demand on the alternator and if you're going to track race it, then an isolation switch to disable the fan while you do your pass might shave some time off your ET's.

[geezer101]

...btw, nice work on improving your passes!

[Can1991Ram]

I made sure to have the fans on a relay. Right now it just goes to a switch on the dashboard but will get a temp sensor to turn it on in the future and the switch to override when on the track.

I'm really fighting the urge to v8 swap this truck. The one I built 20 years was so fun.

There is little way to replicate the low 12 second performance of a mildly cammed 360 in this 4 cylinder without a ton of money and boost. I did see an AWD Eagle run 9.99 at the track a few months ago with a 4G63.. but you can see a ton of money there.

Our 360 just had a good cam and some KB 10:1 pistons.

One of my bucket list items is one of the power tours and thinking this truck might be perfect for that. Bot to win.. but to build to run the tour.

I have access to a v6 Magnum and a 318 Magnum ( wish it was a 360) both with a500 tranny that would bolt in place of the current A500 in the truck. Also have access to a free 3.55 Sure Grip 8 1/4 from a Dakota. People say they don't live but there is a Dokato RT at the track running 10's on one and he said he has never broke it.

I also have an empty 8 3/4 A Body housing that is the perfect width... just would take a ton of cash to put it back together.

Lots of things to think about.

This engine is WAY TOO SLOW unless I dump cash into it and boost.

What do you all think.

[geezer101]

If you want to build a competitive truck then you only have 2 options. Turbo 4G63 or the SB V8. You never know, you might be in the right place at the right time and a 4G63 might come up at the right price. Abandoned truck projects sometimes come up for cheaps due to the owner not having time or the space to complete it. Yes you have to factor everything else in to build it but the pros always say "performance, reliability and budget - you only get to pick 2 off the list"

[Can1991Ram]

I like driving the truck which lends me to a turbo solution .. economy and power when I need it for the turbo... or the V8 and economy out the window.
I put about 15000km a year on this truck... but when I'm at half throttle driving into a head wind my economy can go out the window.

As much as driving at 80km/hr done the road isn't bad.. passing is awful.

I did find a turbo 2.2 lebaron that I was thinking about grabbing as it is a bit easier to get parts for. I would just have to make an adapter plate to get the 2.2 in place of the 2.4.

Now.. I do have the 2.0 half apart... so i could rebuild it. It has a manual tranny so I'm assuming it would be a wide block and bolt in place of my 2.4..

The biggest pain is there is NO performance cams for the SOHC heads unless I have mine cut.

So many choices...

BUT.. I refuse to LS Swap...LOL

If I'm rebuilding an engine.. I'm unsure which way to go. grrrrrrrrrrr......

[Giovanni89]

I don't think you would take a huge economy penalty with a v8. Put some really low rear gears in and an overdrive. My 4300 pound crown vic averages 24 to the gallon. It's about 70% highway where i'm cruising between 75 and 90mph most mornings, and the rest 40mph or so back roads. High 20's is possible with more careful driving.

[dash]

v6 Magnum and a 318 Magnum both with a500 tranny that would bolt in place of the current A500 in the truck.

so the factory 4-speed auto transmission in the 91 D50 in an A500 ? Manufactured by who ?
What mods needed for your low 12s goal ?

[dash]

If you want to build a competitive truck then you only have 2 options. Turbo 4G63 or the SB V8.

I think your options go as far as your imagination really.... and yes, u can have: fast + cheap + reliable all at once

[Can1991Ram]

so the factory 4-speed auto transmission in the 91 D50 in an A500 ? Manufactured by who ?
What mods needed for your low 12s goal ?

All the guts in the tranny are A500 Chrysler with a case made by Mitsh..

When I built the 1986 with the 360 auto, the factory tranny was basically a 904 Mopar with a Mitsh case.. the v8 904 bolted right in and even the factory floor shift worked with no adjustment. This did push the engine a bit forward but a slant six auto cordoba driveshaft was the perfect length once I modified the yoke on the pinion to take the Chrysler U-Joint.

Here is a cache copy of my old Geocities Ram 50 site with the truck I built in 1999. In the end it ran 12.16 before my brother sold it .

It was easier to find these trucks back then. We paid $200 for the truck and used mostly stock parts ( except the third motor that ran low 12's).

[Can1991Ram]

http://www.geocities.ws/ram50v8/swap.htm

[dash]

Cool project v8 truck. Chrysler tranny in mitsu case is interesting.... instead of using the starions Jatco
A buddy dohc his 2.4/16g turbo. Didn't give the stock truck tranny a chance, by at least bump it up. Fried it in short order.

2.0 half apart... so i could rebuild it. It has a manual tranny so I'm assuming it would be a wide block and bolt in place of my 2.4..
The biggest pain is there is NO performance cams for the SOHC heads unless I have mine cut.

2.0 manual most likely narrow block.... hence why ideal candidate for a DSM 4g63 swap popularity
Some oz/nz starions replace their 2.0 with 2.4 sohc. They run the 2.0 mechanical valvetrain + Camtech or Wade camshafts. A big pain??
Aussie 2.0 regrinds quality control way better to me. Dynos on austarion. More serious builds run billet cam
Most 2.6 US starions run regrinds also, Schnieder mostly. Lotsa quality control issues. They do perform if/when they get em right tho
Mild turbo 2.4sohc starion dyno ~350hp/~370ft-lbs. Custom intake plenum + cam + custom header + GT30/upgrade + Delco ecu. STOCK pistons!

A basicly stock 4g63 + diy header + $200 holset HX35 + lo cost Delta regrind cams + tuned DSM ecu + mild mod DSM auto tranny
ET 10.1sec in a 3000 pound street DSM. Excellent turbo response. While excelent bang-for-da-buck, way steeper learning curve tho.
Carbd & cam'd V8 is alot 'simpler', but no comparison. Will need to boost or spray even an LS to keep up I'd imagine
What's your goal and budget ?