How to determine???

[85Ram50]

You may have seen my starting issues thread http://www.mightyram50.net/vbulletin...tarting-issues
So the starter I put the new solenoid on is not turning the motor over every time, or catching a bit then just spinning the pinion drive. The brushes were more than half there when I cleaned it.

Is there a way to determine of it is the starter or my flexplate ring gear without having to remove the trans?

[geezer101]

Take the transmission cover plate off from under the engine and have a look at the condition of the ring gear teeth. I think the problem is related to the starter motor itself (or the choice of starter motor) Auto and manual starters aren't interchangeable and there are different starter motors for different generations of engines. Bench test the starter motor - watch what it's doing (or not doing...) If it throws out and spins every time during the bench test, there's a problem with either a lead or connection. This issue has been haunting you for ages

[85Ram50]

Fingers crossed you are right. I dread doing a flex plate. This is a new problem since it gave me grief starting.

[85Ram50]

I have pictures. More than 50% of the ring gear has shiny rounded edges. I'm thinking that is the problem. There is a section of it that is not rounded over and not shiny. I only added two pics.

I did not remove the starter. When I installed it (it is a manual starter) the pinion gear had no visible wear or rounding over on it.

shiny edges.jpg some not shiny edges.jpg

Edit- Duh forgot to ask, does this look like the problem or should I focus on the starter still? I have a feeling letting that new solenoid get loose, and the lesser kick out it gave to the pinion gear, caused this problem.

[85Ram50]

When I take out the Transmission will I have to replace the U joints? Or will I be able to remove the Center Yoke attaching nut w/o having to remove the U joint? I know I replaced them a long time ago around when I replaced the center bearing and put in a new clutch. I can't remember if I had to or chose to because of the age of the thing.

I am getting a new starter and a new flywheel and putting in a new clutch I have had sitting around.

Edit- I figured I will disconnect the four bolts at the differential them the two on the center bearing mount and it should pull back easily. Got new starter handed in the red one as core. I also took out the starter I have in there. I need a throwout bearing. Forget what the tiny 1.25" bearing in the kit is for but I expect it will be obvious. Glad I grabbed this kit for $25 years ago they are over $60 now!

[geezer101]

I think your theory about the starter solenoid not making full travel is on the money. Partial engagement of the starter drive will risk damage to the ring gear.

[85Ram50]

I think your theory about the starter solenoid not making full travel is on the money. Partial engagement of the starter drive will risk damage to the ring gear.

There were no visible new shiny spots on the starter when I took it out but the pinion gear is noticeably more round than the new one.

[FMS88]

The 1.25” bearing is probably the pilot bearing that fits inside the center of the flywheel and supports the front end of the input shaft. Definitely replace it with a sealed bearing. Don’t use a bearing with metal shielding. They don’t seal as well against water and dirt. I’ve had two metal shielded bearings rust and seize which ruined the input shaft.

[85Ram50]

The 1.25” bearing is probably the pilot bearing that fits inside the center of the flywheel and supports the front end of the input shaft. Definitely replace it with a sealed bearing. Don’t use a bearing with metal shielding. They don’t seal as well against water and dirt. I’ve had two metal shielded bearings rust and seize which ruined the input shaft.

I think you are right. I was thinking I needed larger bearing for some reason.

IS THERE ANYTHING I SHOULD KNOW BEFORE I DISCONNECT THE TRANS? I have it in 2nd gear as recommended in the FSM. I'm not going to drain it.

[FMS88]

I’ve never removed a 2wd trans but if it’s like the 4x, removing the shift lever makes things easier. Just protect the opening from dirt. Also you may need to remove the backup light switch. If you do be careful not to lose the 6-7mm ball that will fall out when the switch is removed. After the trans is out, consider replacing the input shaft seal and the rear crankshaft seal if the inside of the bell housing is wet, or if you have no idea how old they are. With it apart to this extent, now’s the time to do those seals. Inspect the clutch surface of the flywheel, too. If it’s scored, it should be removed and resurfaced. Have fun.

[85Ram50]

I have had it out before to replace the throwout bearing but I do not remember everything about how I disconnected it. It is starting to look like I have to remove the cross member.
I have the backup light wire disconnected and wrapped up close to the trans, disconnected the e brake and clutch cable. About to tackle the drive shaft. I didn't think of those seals thanks. Any special tools required? I've never done it before. Also it looks like two different sizes of rear crank seal on RA. I wonder what those gaskets are for?

Edit. Got the Drive shaft off loosened the bolts on the trans and trans mount. I shouldn't have to take out the cross member the mount unbolts from it which brings me to a new mount. None of the three on RA look similar to the one I have. I should have taken a picture before I cleaned up. That'll have to wait I need to go get something.
Oh yea the exhaust manifold may be cracked. Yippeee.

[geezer101]

I would remove the shifter assembly before trying to take the gearbox out. It'll give you more breathing room (plus I'm not even sure you could actually drop the gearbox with it still attached anyway) Is your drive/tail shaft a 2 piece? You will need to look at the condition of the carrier bearing as they do fail - the rubber part of the carrier bearing perishes and it'll cause vibrations and weird rumbling noises.

[FMS88]

I didn't think of those seals thanks. Any special tools required? I've never done it before. Also it looks like two different sizes of rear crank seal on RA. I wonder what those gaskets are for?

The crank seal and input shaft seal are in housings you unbolt from the engine and trans. The documentation I have lists the crank seal P/N as MD050604 and get one that comes with the "U" shaped gasket. After you remove the oil seal case from the block, note the direction of the metal oil separator. I just used a 3" ABS sewer cap and a large vise to press the seal into the oil seal case. To get to the input shaft seal you have to remove the front bearing retainer (case) behind the throwout bearing. The seal P/N is MD703735, the gasket is MD703734. Use a large socket with a diameter slightly larger than the seal's to install the seal into the retainer.
I don't have a P/N for the trans mount, but maybe another member can help you with that.

[85Ram50]

Got it geez. I was leaving that for last.
OK so I guess that is what those gaskets for the rear main seal are for. I have a press not the gadgets that make pressing easy though

I ordered the Fel Pro rear seal set and the Timken input shaft seal. I'll go put a jack under the tranny and take out the rear mount and put a picture up in a bit.

EDIT- Got a couple of pictures of the mount in place. two of the bottom one of the top that isn't clear. on top the studs with no nuts on them to the right.
bottom mount1.jpg bottom mount2.jpg top studs.jpg

[geezer101]

The gearbox mount doesn't appear to be broken or torn. I did a lot of searching to find the correct trans mount for these trucks as there was some confusion to what was the right mount. I think I ended up finding one for a Saporo or a Celeste as a match...

[85Ram50]

Here are some pictures of the trans mount. You are right Geez. It is in fine condition and looks nothing like any other mount I have seen. There is a tube spacer that goes between the ears on the base where the bolt through the cross member goes. Note- Follow ALL of the instructions. the trans rolled off the jack and dumped all its fluid out of the shifter hole which I decided not to drain according to instructions :/ Off to get kitty litter.

K130 mount side.jpg K130 mount top.jpg

[geezer101]

The support in this mount is slightly elevated - can't say I've seen one like it. But that is good news that it's 100% as far as condition is concerned. Meh, it sucks you lost the gearbox oil but it would've been a good idea to swap it out anyway. Get ready for the 'which gearbox oil is correct for brass synchros' debate...

[85Ram50]

Flywheel off. The inside of the trans was just as dirty. Took two cans of engine cleaner and 3 cans of carb cleaner to get it clean. The rear seal is in the local post office distribution center, I should have it today or tomorrow.
flywheel off.jpg
Lots of chipped corners on the ring gear.

[geezer101]

Yeah that looks pretty (nasty) normal. I've noticed for some reason oven cleaner isn't as effective at removing gearbox grime as it is on engines. The carb/brake cleaner is usually the weapon of choice for this kind of gunk.

[85Ram50]

OK I need help. I am inside the front of the input shaft and I need to remove the shaft the clutch cable pulls to move the throwout bearing. I have no idea how to do it but I need to or I cannot get the cover off to change out the input shaft seal. I changed the output shaft seal. I suspect I need to remove that thing which looks like a freeze plug on the passenger side but ????
inside trans.jpg passenger side.jpg dvr side.jpg

[camoit]

There are 2 roll pins that hold the shaft in place. When taking that cover off for the seal. Make sure you keep the front shaft in place.
DO NOT pull the shaft up or out. If you do you will drop all the needle bearings out between the input shaft and output shaft.
Then you have a big problem because you will need to pull the pan and then put them back into the input shaft. It's a big pain. Just think of trying to do a U joint that came apart but you have even less room for mistake.

[FMS88]

Pry the two coil springs off the clutch fork that held the t/o bearing to release their tension on the fork. The drive the two pins far enough that the fork rotates freely on the clutch arm shaft. You can then slide the arm to you right and remove the springs and fork. Don’t remove the plug. Note the position of the springs so you get them on their respective sides. Pull the pins out of the fork so you can insert them into the holes on the front side of the fork during reassembly.

[85Ram50]

I understand what you said FMS88. The springs are already loosened. I am not sure what you mean Camoit. What do you mean by "front shaft"? Do you mean the shaft with the splines on it? I had no intention of pulling on it but that is good to know.
BTW a 32mm socket is the right size for putting the output shaft seal in.

[85Ram50]

Update.
The parts all came in today way ahead of estimated delivery. All parts on, trans still off.
Two questions.
1. Is it normal for trans oil to leak out the output shaft when the front is propped up? Seems like a no to me. But while I had it up to get the throwout fork off it seems to have leaked some oil. (Edit- I had the housing for the input shaft seal loose at the time. That might make a difference.)
2. In the picture does the clutch look installed correctly? Should I tighten the clutch cover assembly all the way flush to the flywheel?

back together.jpg clutch 1.jpg clutch 2.jpg clutch 3.jpg

[FMS88]

The output seal contacts the slip yoke, so without the yoke, oil can easily flow out if the trans is tilted up. If the disc is centered and the pressure plate contacts the flywheel at all guide pins and bolts after the bolts are torqued as in picture #4, I think you're good to go.