4g64t, 4L80, 4 link build

[colt2c00]

Just want to start off by saying I had fat fingers earlier with my username so now it makes no sense to me haha.

My vehicle history...

- First real build was a 1989 Dodge Colt that I put a 4g63t into, then made it AWD after I wrecked the FWD trans. It was fun, quick, and ugly. It had multiple stages of life and the latest turbo I had was a 60-1 something or other about 15 years ago.

- Next one was a 1992 BMW E36 from Japan. Put a built LS3 into it with a t56, then upgraded the rear diff to a ford 8.8 with the independent rear suspension still. Put way too much money in it, loved the chassis, weight balance, and the power. Was just a pain to do anything under the hood with the engine, not enough room. It was 11.81 seconds at 120 mph I believe.

And now I have the Ram 50. Multiple other vehicles in between but nothing of any major importance. I picked this one up this last spring with the intent of building it. It ran like crap. The fuel tank was full of rust, fuel pump prefilter was cut off, a cheap/low pressure fuel pump was in the tank, tiny speaker wire was used from the pump to the chassis connector which was also just bare wires twisted together sitting exposed 1 inch below the box, and the air flow sensor was failed.


Removed the original wide block 2.4. Positioned the narrow block 2.4 with the gm 4L80 trans bolted to it using Hinchers setup. Made my motor mounts to move the motor forward. Installed new cams and rockers in the head along with a truck water pump. Went with the thermostat housing that comes straight out to the side. I have a new crank and rods to make it a 2.1 destroked engine which is the future plans of this block.


The aluminum rad is what I had installed in the talon previously, it fits amazingly well with a new bracket. The sides of the bracket bolt to the factory rad mounts, the bottom of the new rad mount has tabs that the rad posts sit in with a layer of rubber between them, the top of the bracket has tabs that bolt down with rubber again on the top posts.


The intercooler is what was in the talon too. Can't remember the exact dimensions on it but its 3.5" thick and fits behind the factory grill and bumper. The outlet ended up right below the battery tray and will be cut shorter yet, the inlet will be shortened once the turbo is in its new home. Ignore the headlights in the picture, the previous owner did those lol.

[geezer101]

Hi and welcome to mightyram. This is a nice project. If you can add any pics of the engine and trans assembly that would be awesome. What was the narrow 2.4 sourced from - the Talon?

[colt2c00]

Back side of the intercooler, also shows the rad frame I built.


The engine has been wired up to a LinkECU. I used a very old version of this in my colt and really liked it. Uses the factory 4g63t harness which was nice. The new one I have has a CAN bus network on it which ties into the new dash and wideband sensor. I have removed the wires that are not required and added a few extra to run the new throttlebody which is drive by wire. Reason for DBW was to get a better idle and electronic cruise control. At the time I took these pictures I was still going the route of the cable throttlebody.


New dash/instrument cluster is a Powertune Digital unit. Touchscreen, color, gps, basically its a raspberry pi with a pi touchscreen that someone put the work into to build a decent interface and set it up. It comes in a 3d printed case and so far they have great customer support. I have removed mine from its original case and made my own, I wanted to change the orientation of the wire connections and placement on the screen. It has 4 screens that are select-able. One of the default ones is a performance related screen showing 0-60, 1/8, 1/4 mile times and lots of other info. It gets its data from the ECU on the CAN bus network, so basically anything that is wired to the ECU can be displayed on here. The original screen protector is still on it so its got lots of glare right now.


The 4L80 transmission has a trans brake in it and a few billet pieces inside. Torque converter is hopefully set to stall around 3600 rpm... not too sure yet how well the engine will get there or launch from there. The trans fits well in the trans tunnel. The cooler fittings are close to the tunnel but they can still be removed with the trans in place.

Front hubs have been changed out to the Toyota pickup hubs to get the 5x114.3 pattern. Front rotors are from a 370Z (14" rotors). The hubs require some machinging or grinding to make the outer diameter smaller to have clearance for the rotor. Front calipers are from a 2000 Chevy V8 Camaro (dual piston), they were cheaper than the Nissan calipers and I think they will still have enough clamping force. The pads don't cover the full face of the disc but for the size of the truck and the size of the rotor I am sure it will be sufficient.

[colt2c00]

Hi and welcome to mightyram. This is a nice project. If you can add any pics of the engine and trans assembly that would be awesome. What was the narrow 2.4 sourced from - the Talon?

This "post wont be visible until a moderator approves it" is annoying but I been there before being the new guy on a forum... eventually it disappears haha.

Anyways, the 2.4 engine was previously in a 1990 talon that I had. The engine was put in that car before I got it. I do not know exactly which vehicle it came from originally, but I am in Canada and there are not that many Galants around here. The crank in it is a 6 bolt, and the head on it is a DOHC head that was originally in my Colt 16 years ago with the ports opened up and oversized valves.



I don't currently have any pictures of the motor and trans bolted together on my computer, I will check on my phone in a bit. They do have to come out once more before spring when i get all the mounts powder coated so I can take some pics then.

I had to get a different crank shaft adapter made up though. According to the torque converter vendor I was dealing with Bills piece had too much tolerance in the hole where the torque converter pilot goes. The vendor says 3-5 thou max, I was measuring 15. I also had to make two shims between the trans and the block adapter plate to get the converter to pull out of the pump the required amount.

[colt2c00]

Rear diff is from a Ford Sport Trac with the 8.8, it came with a 4.10 gear ratio and factory locker which will stay in it until I de-stroke the motor then I think I am going with a 4.30 ratio and different locker. I have cut the factory leaf mounting tabs and sway bar mounts off then dropped it off for sandblasting. I drew up the brackets I need for the parallel 4-link mounts and waiting for them to get cut out. Going to use 1.25" 0.120 DOM tubing for the links with heim joints. Haven't decided yet on a watts link or panhard bar.

- Not too sure why this picture is rotated... it views properly on my pc.

I have QA1 double adjustable coilovers for all 4 corners. I really liked the ability I had in the BMW to adjust the bound and rebound individually which is why I chose these. I don't have pictures of these, but they look nice lol. I had the springs powder coated black.

Between the frame and the outer skin on the front of the box is where I mounted the engine oil cooler and trans oil cooler. They have large fans on them. There will be almost nothing in that area for natural air flow, so I have to watch the temps when I start driving it, see if the fans can keep up. Might need to change something on them in the future. Good thing it doesn't get super hot up here in Canada much. If needed I can try and make an air scoop somewhere to force air into it while in motion like the bottom of my Grand National has for the intercooler, it seems to work for it.

[geezer101]

Thanks for the info. Too bad you don't know the vehicle the block was sourced from. In manual form it could be mounted up to a narrow 5 speed with a reinforced sump plate which would be cool as well. Were the QA1 coil overs up front for an S10? I always thought the coil overs for a Mustang II would work up front on these trucks as well.

[colt2c00]

Thanks for the info. Too bad you don't know the vehicle the block was sourced from. In manual form it could be mounted up to a narrow 5 speed with a reinforced sump plate which would be cool as well. Were the QA1 coil overs up front for an S10? I always thought the coil overs for a Mustang II would work up front on these trucks as well.

Are there any special markings on the 2.4 blocks to indicate what it was originally from? I have only dealt with the 4g63 and 4g61 blocks in the past, not sure if the 4g64 blocks have any different markings.

The front coilovers are part number GD401, summit shows these as fitting the old firebirds/camaro cars. I seen a post somewhere showing someone installed these on the truck and tried out a few different springs ending up with the mustang II spring because its got a taper to it to fit a bit better. I believe the guy in the post said it was for an S-10 but I can't fully remember, it was about 4 or 5 months ago I seen it lol. The spring part number I have is 8MB375 for the front. The mount in the lower control arm needs to be modified to fit these coilovers, the factory nuts need removing.

The Mustang II coilovers I am looking at on the internet have a lower mount that is just a bushing. So if someone wanted to try one of those then they would have to get a shaft or a spool made that would insert into the lower bushing and have a flat side on each end with a hole drilled in it to bolt to the lower control arm. I also can't find an extended length on the Mustang II stuff, the QA1 GD401 for comparison is 12.88 inches extended.

[dash]

G4CS (or something like that) was 1990 hyundai sonata 2.4L sohc. Narrow. Somebody gave me one years back

what driveby throttle body used ?
So this is a street truck, biased towards drag(transbrake) ?
Fabricating a 4-link, so you could use coilovers out back also ?
. Some 4cyl mini pickups in the 7s on leafs
Why the 4L80, and the Link plug n play ecu will control the tranny ?
. That tranny wide as hell as you go lower. Be glad its not getting 'tucked up' into a japanese car floorpan
17 inch wheels ?
. Must be some high revver if 4.30 gear.


An intense build. Would be cool to see the electronics in harmony.... and dash display especially

[colt2c00]

G4CS (or something like that) was 1990 hyundai sonata 2.4L sohc. Narrow. Somebody gave me one years back

what driveby throttle body used ?
So this is a street truck, biased towards drag(transbrake) ?
Fabricating a 4-link, so you could use coilovers out back also ?
. Some 4cyl mini pickups in the 7s on leafs
Why the 4L80, and the Link plug n play ecu will control the tranny ?
. That tranny wide as hell as you go lower. Be glad its not getting 'tucked up' into a japanese car floorpan
17 inch wheels ?
. Must be some high revver if 4.30 gear.


An intense build. Would be cool to see the electronics in harmony.... and dash display especially

The throttlebody is off a Mitsubishi Endeavor with the V6. Its the same bolt pattern as a DSM flange. I think it was 62 or 63 mm, so I will need an odd coupler when I build the intercooler piping. From what I understand pretty much any electronic throttlebody will work as long as it has 6 wires going to it. There are two TPS signal wires, one +5v DC, one Ground, and 2 wires for the motor. The throttle pedal also has 2 TPS sensors. If any pair of TPS sensors deviates over a certain amount the ecu goes into limp mode and sets the throttlebody to an idle position, rather than failing at WOT or its last position.

Its main purpose is to go drag racing, although I live about 2.5 hours from the nearest track... so it will spend a decent amount of time on the local streets/car shows and what not. 4 link for the rear end because I wanted to try and get the most traction I can without running a crazy wide tire setup. I would like to stay away from going wider than 275 for a tire. There is not much for adjustment with leaf springs regarding anti-squat, just ladder bars/traction bars and shock adjustments.

I picked the 4L80 because I wanted an electronically controlled auto transmission. My colt was manual with a larger than normal turbo, the turbo lag after shifting was horrible unless I used the no lift to shift feature but then that wasn't the best on the synchros and me jamming the shift cables lol. The LS BWM was a manual but no turbo, the trans was way better quality and build and I could shift it pretty quick, but a large turbo and auto I think is the way to go. The way I see it is the 4L80 now is what the TH400 was 20 years ago, but 10 or 15 years from now the TH400 is going to be harder to come by for parts I think, who knows, its a guess. The Link ECU will not control an auto trans, for that I am using a GM 12200411 ECM. It is a factory computer that can have the engine side of it basically disabled so it can act as a stand alone trans computer. It requires a TPS signal and a engine speed signal that I think is 24 pulses per revolution. To get that I am taking the mitsu sensor on the cam, made a math table in the Link computer and multiplied it by 24, output it to a pin that is wired to the 0411 ECM. The Link is capable of frequency output of 10,000 hz area, a way higher frequency than I will ever need for this engine.

Those are 19" Volk Racing GTS wheels on the front. They still have the original rubbers on them from 2006 I believe, the tits are still visible on them lol. They were on the talon, really like the style of them and the fact that they are not made any more. For drag racing I will be running 17" or smaller in the rear with drag radials.

The 4.3 gear will be because of the destroked 4g64/2.1 liter in the future. 28" tall tire with a 4.30 diff ratio on a 4L80 trans will be around 120 mph at the end of second gear (~9000 rpm).

[dash]

Dunno what's your ET goal, but this somewhat similar ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw7mvHNAy6o
7s on E85, stroked toyota 4AGE, C4 auto, leafs & 225 drag radial. Amazing stuff

[colt2c00]

Figured I would share a few things that I drew up that helped me along the way. I have used a 3d printer now for about 3 years now and I own two different ones. It has helped me a few times on various projects, like playing around with different dimensions to get the positioning correct for my brake caliper adapters so they can be cut from metal. Also used it in the past to help make a new design of a heim joint/ball joint for my other truck for longer travel suspension.

These are clamps for 6 AN and 8 AN hoses. I 3d printed them from PETG. They are held together with tye-wraps, then tye-wraped onto a metal tab that I bolted to the chassis on the truck. Keeps the lines from rubbing or moving where they shouldn't be.


With all the wiring I was doing for the engine I was able to mostly use the factory 4g63 harness and factory colors with a few exceptions. The trans wiring harness I had to make was all from scratch though. I only had 5 wire colors that I bought, so to identify them I drew this up and 3d printed it. Flat side clamps in a vice, 16 gauge wire in the hole in the bottom, colored sharpie in the hole in the top. I found putting a 17mm socket on the top of the sharpie was enough weight to leave a nice wide stripe on the wire as it was pulled through. This gave me 3-4 color variations of each wire, FYI, a blue sharpie and a black sharpie are almost identical on an orange wire. This simple thing amused a few of my friends that came by and checked out the truck, how something so simple can be made on a 3d printer that is functional.

[colt2c00]

Dunno what's your ET goal, but this somewhat similar ? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nw7mvHNAy6o
7s on E85, stroked toyota 4AGE, C4 auto, leafs & 225 drag radial. Amazing stuff

Thats an impressive truck he has, wonder if he is spraying for just first gear or all of them? Under a ton too haha, thats nice and light. I want to get into the 10s which I dont think will be out of reach with pump gas. E85 or race fuel isn't really available locally where I am at, so pump gas it is for me. I know that there is a high chance that N2O is probably in my future, at least for the launch and first gear. I am going to wait until the track says I need a cage to start building one, just don't want to build everything all at once, I want to be able to drive it and enjoy it as it progresses.

[dash]

if u choose... run pump + injection, as the buicks been doing forever
10s a very reasonable goal for a street DSM auto tranny Mmax. The more 'dialed in' a combo, the less power it takes
this DSM powered datsun is a bit lighter than a Mmax. 3spd auto & 4 link... mid 9s
https://www.dsmtuners.com/threads/my...-build.502426/

since we're on the topic... here is a full street car goes 10.3. 1.8L low compression + popular lightwt GM 3spd auto
he's only running 22psi on a puny precision 5557. Leaf spring & 225 radial. Very efficient setup, is the point
https://www.rollaclub.com/board/topi...ge/6/#comments

[crvtec90]

[colt2c00]

I didn't get as much done this weekend as I was hoping to, spent all day yesterday driving and getting a snow blower.
But I picked up the diff from the sandblasters down the street and did the clean up of the axle tubes where the original stuff mounted.


Also picked up the 4 link mounts from the machine shop, had them cut them out on a water table.


Cut the axle tube brackets and got them into their new home roughly. Just tack welded them together for now, fairly square but will double check next time I am back at the shop.



Back to work tomorrow.

[xboxrox]

Canadians have too much money At least you're spending it wisely; that radiator musta cost twice what my truck is worth ~ am curious the brand..? Kudos

[geezer101]

Canadians have too much money At least you're spending it wisely; that radiator musta cost twice what my truck is worth ~ am curious the brand..? Kudos

All alloy radiators aren't that bad - $300ish USD. The good thing about using drivetrain parts like a GM auto trans and the Ford rear end is price/availability. You'd be in a tight spot to find an auto 4 speed from a Mighty Max and it wouldn't like having all that turbo torque pushed through it for long. Can't wait to see how it all goes together!

[colt2c00]

Canadians have too much money At least you're spending it wisely; that radiator musta cost twice what my truck is worth ~ am curious the brand..? Kudos

It was $360 CAD with free shipping, that came with the two fans and the shroud. Ebay search for "Yonaka Radiator". This one was specific to the 90-94 talon chassis, but with enough searching there probably is something else that might possibly fit better. The welds on it don't look too bad. Definitely could have been welded better with a skilled person behind a tig, but that person would most definitely not be me when its aluminum lol.

[colt2c00]

Its been a while, I have been making progress although its not as much as I was hoping for, but its in the right direction anyways. The 4 link is done, installed. Bars have been powdercoated, diff and the brackets are all bare still. This pic is still with the stock front suspension on.



And speaking of front suspension... you can say these bushings were well beyond due for replacement. Poly bushings were installed in their place.


Just a picture of the 19's that I will run on the street and the 15's for the drag strip. Once this rubber burns off the 19's then it will get something with some more sidewall, I just find it hard to take off tires that have less then a few hundred miles on them just to change them.

[colt2c00]

I 3d printed a fixture to hold the 1.25" sch 10 stainless elbows in the band saw. This fixture allows me to set the angle I need to cut the 90 degree fitting at and secure it tightly in the saw with no slip. The first test cut took about 4 minutes to cut, I got it started then walked away until it was done.

[colt2c00]

This is where the fuel tank will sit. It has 2x2" square tubing running across the front and back of it.


Using the OEM sending unit, had to bend the arm to "calibrate it" for the new tank haha. The fuel filler cap once fully threaded in should fit just below the bed of the box. Planning on putting a cutout into the box bed mounted on hinges with some clasp of some sort to hold it closed. The square piece is removable, this is how the fuel pump is accessed.


I decided to make the fuel pump mount bracket that will be bolted in place. This way in the future if I ever change fuel pump designs I can just make a new bracket and bolt it in compared to trying to modify a bracket in place or weld in place in a small access hole. The reason for the odd mount, is to run 2 pumps if required in the future too. Only plan on running 1 for now.

[colt2c00]

For the QA1 stuff in the front... I believe the part number was GD401 (dual adjustable Mustang II coilover), it fits kinda. The upper shock mount needs to be lowered about 2 inches (the top of the threaded rod is too short otherwise). With the 8" 375 lbs spring they have, there is too much spring tension when raising up the lower control arm to attach to the upper control arm. The truck was coming off the jackstands with about a 4" gap between the upper ball joint and the spindle. So the either the lower control arm needs to be modified to lower the bottom shock mount, the upper spring pocket needs to be raised, or a shorter coilover installed. I already cut the OEM spring pocket off these arms and welded plates in their spot to help strengthen it back up.


So for now I am leaning towards buying new lower control arms (with spring pockets haha), installing that with my coilovers with the stock springs in the stock locations. This wont give me adjustable ride height, but will give me adjustable dampening at least for now. Then in the future sometime, use these lower control arms to make a jig to allow me to fabricate new arms, either tubular or boxed unless I find a spring that fits that is shorter than 8".

Still on the list to finish, weld in AN fittings for fuel pump into tank, wire fuel pump, powder coat outside and coat the inside of fuel tank, build turbo manifold, intercooler piping, find and attach some seats that fit better and do the lower control arm thing already mentioned. Good chance that I will find other stuff along the way to work on because thats the way it seems to happen...

[geezer101]

I liked the idea of the Mustang II coil overs but looking at your work I think it would need some radical upper spring tower/shock mount surgery. If it came down to literally lopping the whole thing off, I'd try to figure out a way to make the upper control arm adjustable so the camber could be dialled in. There are prefabricated upper spring/shock mounts that can be welded in, but getting the camber right...

By the way - nice work with your truck

[colt2c00]

I liked the idea of the Mustang II coil overs but looking at your work I think it would need some radical upper spring tower/shock mount surgery. If it came down to literally lopping the whole thing off, I'd try to figure out a way to make the upper control arm adjustable so the camber could be dialled in. There are prefabricated upper spring/shock mounts that can be welded in, but getting the camber right...

By the way - nice work with your truck

I am not certain I want to cut the upper spring pocket off the frame and build something new to fit. Perhaps in the future, if I did that then I would change it to a design where the upper spring mount is on the coilover itself like a traditional strut design instead of sitting in a pocket on the frame. I feel it would give more options for coilover setups. In the past I have made a fwd hatchback into an AWD chassis, it took a lot of measuring but everything passed the alignment and I am not sure I want to do that much again.

Thanks, glad someone other than me likes it haha

[atownbrg]

wow, impressed! Goes to show what can be accomplished with knowledge and skill (and some time / $ but whatever). Here I am fiddling with a gas tank! Curious what 3d printer you have that made the tube clamp holder thing?